Public Panic Situation

This is a discussion on Public Panic Situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; okay. I was just reading the thread about carrying in Disney World and NCHornet's post about being there when 9/11 happened and everyone panicking and ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Public Panic Situation

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Waponi Woo
    Posts
    1,045

    Public Panic Situation

    okay. I was just reading the thread about carrying in Disney World and NCHornet's post about being there when 9/11 happened and everyone panicking and running for the gates trampling people and families getting separated by crowds.

    Ok. I have a question.

    In reading this thread I started thinking what would be the best course of action if you were in a very public place like an amusement park mentioned in that thread when something like 9/11 happened.

    I had the thought that wouldn't it be better to stay back from the crush of the crowd and wait a bit more to get back the hotel than to get in the thick of it and risk getting separated and/or trampled on? You are in no immediate risk. Staying where you are isn't going to increase your risk. You are not going to get back to your safe home with emergency supplies anyway, just the hotel. All your family is already with you. Finding out what is actually going on an hour later isn't going to change anything. Let the crowds die down a bit and then catch the bus back. Why take the risk?

    What say you?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    Sounds reasonable to me. A panicked crown is a dangerous thing in its own right - staying out of it if there's no immediate threat in the area is a good idea.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    I agree. I don't ever panic much over anything. It's either because I like to stand back and watch the show, or that I am too slow in that respect. Whomever is with me when panic sets in amongst the crowd better settle their ass down immediately in order to comply with my demeanor, or they might receive a 'loving---(wake-me-up) slap up side the head'. Assessment of the current situation usually demands timely cognitive ability. Pack mentality will more than usually get you herded into a worse scenario where grave mistakes are commonplace. Never be a pathetic sheep.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.W.
    Posts
    2,917
    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post
    okay. I was just reading the thread about carrying in Disney World and NCHornet's post about being there when 9/11 happened and everyone panicking and running for the gates trampling people and families getting separated by crowds.

    Ok. I have a question.

    In reading this thread I started thinking what would be the best course of action if you were in a very public place like an amusement park mentioned in that thread when something like 9/11 happened.

    I had the thought that wouldn't it be better to stay back from the crush of the crowd and wait a bit more to get back the hotel than to get in the thick of it and risk getting separated and/or trampled on? You are in no immediate risk. Staying where you are isn't going to increase your risk. You are not going to get back to your safe home with emergency supplies anyway, just the hotel. All your family is already with you. Finding out what is actually going on an hour later isn't going to change anything. Let the crowds die down a bit and then catch the bus back. Why take the risk?

    What say you?
    I agree. Entering the throng is a much higher risk than waiting it out in that particular scenario. Facing an imminent threat however, I'm going to fight tooth and nail to get my wife and baby out of that park...
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  6. #5
    Member Array dagor2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    70
    Watching the New Year's festivities on TV the other night had me considering similar scenarios.

    If you can be ahead of the pack in terms of knowledge of whats unfolding, you'll have a brief window to immediately leave with your family. If danger does not seem as imminent/dangerous and you are hearing of events later in the timeline, then I agree - hang back, stay safe and make a move when things are cool. Avoid the crush of the crowd whenever possible. Its like leaving a game a few minutes before the final whistle gets you ahead of the jam.

    But there are so many unknowns. On 9/11 I was driving to work when I got a call from my parents after the first plane hit. I immediately turned around and headed north to home in case worse was yet to come. I did not know how widespread the attack was going to be or if it involved even bigger weaponry targeting metro areas so I decided to immediately abandon the original plan for the day. I think most people heard the news and still went to work. At least I avoided the rush hour that day :-)
    Allen

    G27, Beretta 8040, Ruger GP100

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Waponi Woo
    Posts
    1,045
    Quote Originally Posted by dagor2k View Post
    But there are so many unknowns. On 9/11 I was driving to work when I got a call from my parents after the first plane hit. I immediately turned around and headed north to home in case worse was yet to come. I did not know how widespread the attack was going to be or if it involved even bigger weaponry targeting metro areas so I decided to immediately abandon the original plan for the day. I think most people heard the news and still went to work. At least I avoided the rush hour that day :-)
    Heh. It was just the opposite for me. I was in NYC for the US Open on 9/09 and was driving home from Rhode Island to Ohio when it happened. I remember seeing signs stating that all roads to NYC may be closed but had no idea what was happening. I hate having to retune the radio all the time so I was listening to CDs the entire way. It wasn't until I was stopping for dinner that I got a call on the cell from family asking if I was caught on the road in NY. I wasn't as I took a more northern route. I didn't even know what happened until 1800 or so.

  8. #7
    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    191
    always avoid the crowd, If I was a bomber the crowd would be a tempting target, especially at disneyland. Besides after you are out of the park you still have to get out of the parking lot. And as an after thought if you are in the park and bad things go down (lock the park) they gotta feed ya...... thats where ill get my monies worth.
    Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
    "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
    Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    528
    I agree. If there isn't a threat that is immediate don't get crushed by the sheeple stampeeding! You can't herd them so watch out for you and yours, and get gone when its safe.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,118
    I had the thought that wouldn't it be better to stay back from the crush of the crowd and wait a bit more to get back the hotel than to get in the thick of it and risk getting separated and/or trampled on?
    I would tend to agree with this idea and thought the same thing when I read his post about the Disney experience on 9-11 in 2001.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array SOLOLUCKY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    ROSS OHIO
    Posts
    517
    Typical Sheeple response.

    "Avoid" is a premise very predominantly portrayed on this board. Avoid confrontation...avoid crowds....avoid dangerous situations....all these places (Disney, Times Square, etc) fly in the face of these values. Now granted, family life can put you there, so the next step is how to deal with this. And "avoid" again has its place...IMHO.
    R1

    This is mine. That is yours.

    Lets keep it that way.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array swiftyjuan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Madera, CA
    Posts
    2,488
    Find a nice, out-of-the-way place to set down, munch if you have it, and watch the herd stampede.
    John
    Assault is a behavior, not a device.

    "Don't never take no shortcuts." Patty Reed, Donner Party

    Lifetime NRA member

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    5,050
    Whenever going on a family outing, be it to a museum, amusement park or to DC to see the sights, some things are always done.

    After arrival establish an RP (Rally Point). If anyone is separated everyone goes to the RP to get back in touch. Sometimes splitting up serves the interests of the group better, so a time is established to be at the RP. I rarely allow more than 2 hours.

    If something like 9/11 happens, everyone goes to the RP, not running with the flow of people. My RPs are usually central locations, easily identified and if possible manned by security guards, police or staff of some sort. This way if a kid gets to the RP and no one else shows up they can get assistance. Which brings another point.

    All kids are introduced to the staff, security or police at the RP location if possible. If nothing else staff, security or police are identified as the only people the kids talk to or go with if there is a problem. Go with, being only if there is a threat or weather issue at the RP. Otherwise they are told not to go anywhere, but insist on help at that spot. Kids can be great at that BTW.

    So the plan, should I be in a very populated area when something bad happens that causes panic, is to get to my RP and assess the situation. Possibly talk with staff, security or police to determine where the danger is, if any, and what they are doing or want me to do. If they told me they wanted me to exit the park, museum or area as soon as possible, then I would, but slowly and leisurely to give everyone else a chance to do the stampede thing.

    I've taken groups of as many as 20 kids on outings in strange cities etc. Only ever had one get separated/miss check in at the RP. That one did the right thing and got a security guard who called the lead counselor (had a cell phone and every kid had the number), who sent me to get her and another kid who separated from his group. We contacted his group to ensure it would be ok for me to get him before I picked him up. All was well that ended well in that case.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member
    Array SleepingZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ne
    Posts
    1,737
    What about a burning building??? I will get my family out, maybe not the front door (SA) I can push my way with the best of them.

    Ever notice when the people finally get out they JUST STOP IN FRONT and block the exits for the rest.


    Z
    Last edited by SleepingZ; January 2nd, 2008 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Don't know how to spell
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Waponi Woo
    Posts
    1,045
    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    What about a burning building??? I will get my family out, maybe not the front door (SA) I can push my way with the best of them.

    Ever notice when the people finally get out they JUST STOP IN FRONT and block the exits for the rest.


    Z
    And that is the difference. In your proposed scenario, there is an immediate local threat to be avoided. WDW on 9/11 wasn't local. they just told everyone that they were closing and to please leave. All the wild stories just made everyone panic even though there was no immediate threat.

    In my scenario, I would have done what swiftyjuan said. Sit, munch, drink and wait for the crowds to go by.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,961
    In the WDW 9/11 scenario, I would hit the snack bar. As was previously stated there are bottle necks at the monorail stations and at the ferry docks, then at the parking lot exits. WDW has a vast underground complex for the day to day logistical operations of the park. Unless we are talking about heavier than air chem/bio attack on the park itself, it would be a great place to "shelter in place".

    As far as confined spaces go, there was a study done way back when that they told us about when I was training to be a firefighter. It seems in case of emergency something like 90% of people try to go out the entrance they came in. They will fight through smoke and noxious fumes and walk past multiple exits to get to "their" door. A lot of people have died trying to get to "their" door. That is why at the beginning of movies they always ask us to please note the nearest exit etc. etc.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. I bought into the panic...AK-47
    By 380ACP in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: March 2nd, 2009, 02:31 PM
  2. When's the panic going to subside
    By NYcarry in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: February 1st, 2009, 03:02 PM
  3. New panic buyer here.
    By j21blackjack in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 17th, 2008, 09:05 PM
  4. Frustrated with Panic Buying
    By bgriffin70 in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: November 17th, 2008, 06:47 PM