Test tube full of blood

This is a discussion on Test tube full of blood within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Someone that would enter a church with a test tube of tainted blood as you describe is trying to make a statement and wants to ...

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Thread: test tube full of blood

  1. #16
    Member Array txshooter's Avatar
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    Someone that would enter a church with a test tube of tainted blood as you describe is trying to make a statement and wants to draw attention to you and your beliefs. Pulling a gun in such a situation could have far more devastating consequences than the tainted blood.

    The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. 2 Cor. 10.4


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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Rossman's Avatar
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    What if scenarios drive me up the wall (although they are fun). My take is this: love the sinner hate the sin. welcome their point of view as best you can and avoid physical contact. Report the threat to LEO and file a formal complaint

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin Cajun View Post
    It is your responsibility to walk away if possibile. Some people have a problem putting pride aside but it is your responsibilty if you have a CCP. If you had that opertunity, your pride got the best of you and you used deadly force, you are more then likely going to jail and won't be the first.
    +1! Way too much testosterone here. Besides, "The prudent sees the evil and hides himself. The stupid go on and are punished for it."

    However, if I was wearing my new WWF T-Shirt I got from my kids for Christmas that's an entirely different story, worthy of serious bodily harm..

  5. #19
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    Two problems; 1) you went out -- therefore you escalated the "fight". 2) Most would argue that it is not a clear enought threat. The chances of contracting AIDS in miniumal. You would need a Large Open wound to get enough of "the blood" in your system to contract AIDS or in your mouth and still you would need an open sore. AIDS is not the easily transmitted illness most think. There have been a number of Medical Professional stuck by needles of AIDS patients that have not gotten the illness (then there are those who have who have not been part of the lifestyle that leads to AIDS; IV Drug users and/or Homosexuals).

  6. #20
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    The AIDS virus cannot live outside the human body for longer than a few seconds because as soon as the temperature drops a couple of degrees below body temp the virus dies.
    Just a FYI but, threatening another individual with any known contaminated body fluid is still a hostile and aggressive act in my personal opinion. I'd go back inside and make a 911 call and have the person arrested and then would pursue it in court.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    In Washington, they would be threatening to inflict great bodily harm (1st degree assault). Emphasis Added. Make up your mind for yourself. I would shoot if I could not retreat.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.36.011

    RCW 9A.36.011
    Assault in the first degree.


    (1) A person is guilty of assault in the first degree if he or she, with intent to inflict great bodily harm:

    (a) Assaults another with a firearm or any deadly weapon or by any force or means likely to produce great bodily harm or death; or

    (b) Administers, exposes, or transmits to or causes to be taken by another, poison, the human immunodeficiency virus as defined in chapter 70.24 RCW, or any other destructive or noxious substance; or

    (c) Assaults another and inflicts great bodily harm.

    (2) Assault in the first degree is a class A felony.

    [1997 c 196 1; 1986 c 257 4.]

    Notes:
    Severability -- 1986 c 257: See note following RCW 9A.56.010.

    Effective date -- 1986 c 257 3-10: See note following RCW 9A.04.110.

    That's the most severe Felony in our State (Class A).

    Now here's when Homicide is justifiable:


    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.


    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

    [1975 1st ex.s. c 260 9A.16.050.]

    I should add... a threat or aborted attempt reduces the crime but at this level of crime, it's still a felony.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joffe View Post
    No, it's not true, use of force is regulated by the assailants ability, opportunity and your perception of his intent (your feeling of jeopardy). It doesn't matter what sort of weapon (if any) he has, if you feel your life is being threatened you should take action.. Then it's up to the courts to decide if it's a disputed shoot.

    In this case I don't think I'd want to shoot and I don't think I'd be there in the first place (kind of like answering the door when you have no idea who's knocking, except this time you actually KNOW they're hostile, why go out there?)
    While I agree with not going there, the assailants ability to carry out a threat is often a non issue. It generally matters more that they tried or believed they could act on their threat.

    Early related cases here:
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  9. #23
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    Assault with a deadly weapon. He's good to shoot.
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  10. #24
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    Oregon Revised Statues (ORS) 161.219:
    161.219 Limitations on use of deadly physical force in defense of a person.

    Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
    1. Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
    2. Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
    3. Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person. [1971 c.743 23]
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  11. #25
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    Isn't this the perfect time to deploy your trunk monkey?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8avOiTUcD4Y

    Seriously, deescalate. Go inside. Call the cops. Make a complaint.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainPacker View Post
    Isn't this the perfect time to deploy your trunk monkey?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8avOiTUcD4Y

    Seriously, deescalate. Go inside. Call the cops. Make a complaint.
    What's that supposed to mean!




    Seriously though... those are some of the funniest ads I've ever seen. Those and these here have been circulating through my work for about a month now.

    I just read through most of Oregon's Statutes. They don't have an affirmative defense so it'd be less than easy to get out of trouble for shooting the guy IMHO.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  13. #27
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    One thing to note is that there are more and more prosecutions for unprotected sex by people who know they have HIV and conceal this fact from others. So, it seems as if courts are treating HIV as a deadly weapon. The probability of infection may be low, but I don't think that's as limiting a factor as the opportunity (in the Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy calculus of lethal threat). I like the analogy of the empty gun that ccw9mm used.

    Yeah, get away if you can, but think of it as a knife---if he can charge and smash it into you, he cuts your skin with the broken glass and gets the virus on you. Sounds about as dangerous as any other contact weapon, so watch that seven yard line...

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    I think in Virginia if you knowingly expose someone to aids it is murder so yes I would draw depending on the situation.

  15. #29
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    For what it's worth... I haven't seen a glass blood tube used in a physicians office, lab or hospital in years. They are unbreakable plastic these days.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by joffe View Post
    No, it's not true, use of force is regulated by the assailants ability, opportunity and your perception of his intent (your feeling of jeopardy). It doesn't matter what sort of weapon (if any) he has, if you feel your life is being threatened you should take action.. Then it's up to the courts to decide if it's a disputed shoot.

    In this case I don't think I'd want to shoot and I don't think I'd be there in the first place (kind of like answering the door when you have no idea who's knocking, except this time you actually KNOW they're hostile, why go out there?)
    So if BG just says I'm going to shoot you then you can shoot him? That seems a little irresponsible. There are many examples of use of force continuums to deal with situations and the gun is always the last option. These always apply to LEO but they are a good guide for all because they are part of the "totality" that courts look at. As a LEO I am authorized to utilize the next level higher force of what the BG is using unless I can articulate a reason to escalate higher.

    An option usually not included is a "tactical withdrawal" which seems a good choice in the situation in the OP.
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