Ok to shoot defensively here?

Ok to shoot defensively here?

This is a discussion on Ok to shoot defensively here? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Lets say you're the man in the teal shirt with his arms folded to the left of the picture. After watching the whole video would ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Ok to shoot defensively here?

    Lets say you're the man in the teal shirt with his arms folded to the left of the picture. After watching the whole video would you draw and shoot the BG's in this situation. Why or why not?

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=92d_1184875651


  2. #2
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    Yep, right away...these guys fired a weapon and were deserving of 2+1 each...
    The gentleman customer certainly had the opportunity, but every situation could be different...it's a tough call...you'd have to be there.
    Based on the video, it appears that an individual with some training and determination could have 'completed' the transaction...quickly!
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Ok from a "may you" standpoint, heck yes. From a tactical "should you" perspective......it's a tough call.

    2 BG's that immediately separated. "I'm" the only real threat to them and it appears that BG #2 recognized that and covered "me" pretty quickly. Take him out, and BG#1 has 2 hostages in the back and no way to get to him. Take BG #1 first, and "I'm" toast and BG#2 is gone.

    I'd have been awfully tempted to engage, but in hindsight, I think it would have been a tactical mistake and could have ended very badly.....
    Last edited by David in FL; January 7th, 2008 at 09:21 AM.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    I must say that the elderly woman was quite brave. But I would like to say that I would have been justified in shooting both suspects. The BGs waited for the store to clear out a little before making their move. Thank God the woman who confronted BG1 did not get shot.
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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    That'd be terrifying. I say I got the green light when the BG fired the shot. From there it's just trying to gather the courage to act at the opportune moment.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Ok to shoot defensively here?
    Absolutely yes. You're witnessing a violent felony in progress, shots have been fired, you've had a loaded firearm aimed directly at you and had that combined with threats of death if you don't comply. If you're the least bit concerned about being gravely injured or killed ... that about covers it.

    Now, whether it's useful to draw and fire at various points in this robbery, that's another matter. There are two. They look relatively alert and adept at keeping an eye on the people who could be a risk to them. It could absolutely be done effectively, but it would depend on timing, ability to move and use cover, ability to quickly get to the BG that had the lady covered. Risk is, as mentioned, they had separated. That's effectively a hostage situation, if it goes sideways. Nasty situation.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Good video Thanks

    Two BGs and they are carrying mid size pistols. Meaning they are at least 380s, or possibly larger, and getting shot could be fatal.

    By evidence that they left there finger prints all over the place, they are by no means professional, and I dough they have ever practiced with their pistols, but at that range they dont have to be a marksman.

    Its a hard call:

    If I thought they where just going to rob and leave, I would keep my pistol concealed.

    The problem is you never know when BGs are going to rob and leave, or if they are crazy on drugs and they are going to shoot everyone.

    Long story short, I would not engage them unless I felt my life was in danger.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    I have seen videos of clerks and customers who completely complied with armed robbers, yet were then shot and killed anyway. I don't want to trust whether I live or die to some bad guy's mood on a certain day.

    I think the customer's best window of opportunity was when the BG's first pulled their guns, before the one turned to focus on him. Once he was on his stomach, he was depending on the BG's mercy for his life. That's not a position I want to find myself in.

    The customer had the element of surprise on his side had he reacted with a gun immediately, although admittedly his window of opportunity was short.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    i would say yeah,but looks like you would more then likely get shot too.
    thier weapons are drawn and thier already have quite an advantage over
    that guy.bad situation to be in. ofcourse you shot me,im going to try my
    best to take you down too.(its one thying to sit here and watch,totally
    diffirent to actually be there though.
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    heck yea. watch the video again. there is a long length of time right at the beginning when he draws his gun. neither of the bad guys are paying attention to you and one is pointing a gun at a lady. take them out then and there. obviously the one pointing the gun at the lady first.
    if from the beginning there was one guy with a gun pointed toward me and one toward the lady it would be a more difficult call

  11. #11
    Member Array S.D.'s Avatar
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    Hell Yes! You point a gun at me you would not live to tell about it. The guy in the teal shirt (if he was carrying) had plenty of chances to drop them both. Pointing a gun at an old lady= POS cowards that need to be removed from the gene pool.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Lots of chances, lots of reasons. I don't think I would get shot either - they wouldn't be expecting it, so they'd lose the upper hand quickly. It would be over pretty fast. JMO

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  13. #13
    Member Array Tye_Defender's Avatar
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    In watching the video, I think I would have drawn my gun and possibly fired when the employee yelled at them to leave. They were both looking away from me and it had been several seconds since they pulled their guns and turned their back on me. When their gun went off I would have been firing, not knowing that he shot a jewelry case and not the employee.

    Now, would I have made it out without getting shot? Good question, since I would then be between them and the exit. Thinking about that scenario, it is unlikely that we are all going to get out alive. I would hope I stopped one of them with my first shots so one is down, the other is going to be shooting at me until I'm hit or he's out of ammo. There isn't a lot of cover, so I'm probably going to get hit. I just hope their aim is BAD.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    I think the very BEST chance that existed to take them both down was right about the time the shot was fired. From the bystander's position, if you could take aim at BG #1's head, and get a solid hit, there'd be a chance to take BG#2 down before he could engage you.

    Once BG#2's attention is focused on you, it's too late.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Might as well add my .02 cents now. I'd pull as soon as they did. I would probably shoot BG#1 instantly, and as BG#2 turns I'd pop him too. My flag would be up in the first place, it generally is when shady looking characters are in places they usually are not. I.e. thugs in a jewelry store. The man in the teal is oblivious to them.

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