Shooting a LEO During a No Knock Warrant?

This is a discussion on Shooting a LEO During a No Knock Warrant? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Discussion going around the office that is interesting. Failure to knock and announce has been in effect from the Supreme Court since 1995. But if ...

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Thread: Shooting a LEO During a No Knock Warrant?

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    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
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    Shooting a LEO During a No Knock Warrant?

    Discussion going around the office that is interesting. Failure to knock and announce has been in effect from the Supreme Court since 1995. But if someone comes busting through the door are you going to hesitate to fire? Especially if they are dressed all in black? I think personally I am going to get shot and at the very least go to jail for shooting an officer. If I dont get a knock and announce, and someone comes through my door, well I would like to believe for my family's sake that I would not think and I would respond by shooting the first one through. I would feel bad but, but where would I stand legally as I have never heard of this occuring.
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    JD
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    It just happened not too long ago actually, stand by for the link,

    Yeah, I'm renaming the title of this thread...


    Ahhh here it is.
    Bad Info Leads Cops to Wrong House, 2 Officers Shot: MN (Merged)

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    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
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    WOW !!! ... So this IS not as uncommon as one would think. GEEZ, as if I dont have enough to worry about already, now home invasion by LEO... great.
    Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
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    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    This situation, in my opinion, is every armed homeowner's worst nightmare, and is a situation I've given a lot of thought to.

    There is no good answer.

    What's to keep some gangbanger punks from putting on fake SWAT vests and masks, kicking in your door and running in screaming POLICE, GET DOWN! ?

    If the police have any business with me, they can knock on my door and I will very politely help them with whatever business they came to discuss. I will never give them a good reason to serve a no-knock warrant on me. I'm not now and never will be a felon.

    Anyone kicking down my door is probably going to be greeted with lead. I hope to God the authorities never mistake my address for a BG's, because I'd probably be in a whole heap of trouble.

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    Read the link. It's possible that something like that could happen, but you have a better chance of being hit by lightning or dying from a bee sting than you do of being killed by a home invader that credibly simulates an actual warrant service or by cops who have raided your residence by mistake.

    It is the nightmare scenario, and perhaps it's worth a passing thought, but it is VERY rare, and not something that I would spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about.
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    The likelihood of a home invasion by a BG is fairly slim. I would imagine the likelihood of being in the situation is virtually non-existent.
    I'm not a statistician but I'm betting you have a better chance of winning by buying $5 worth of Powerball tickets for each drawing than of being involved in a wrong address no-knock warrant. Some of the scenarios people seem to worry about are a little out there.

    Which brings up something I've learned throughout my life. "Don't sweat the small stuff." & "Its all small stuff". I'm going to be prudent in living my life which will move into cautiousness occasionally tempered by the appropriate amount of fear when necessary. However I refuse to to be paranoid of every possibility that may happen.
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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    In the event that it is an LEO entry team at the wrong address and you offer resistance, you WILL be killed. Sad, but true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitmaster View Post
    The likelihood of a home invasion by a BG is fairly slim. I would imagine the likelihood of being in the situation is virtually non-existent.
    Shoot theres one a day over in cincinnati, every morning I turn on the news and they are reporting on one..

    As far as the police go, that I would guess is rare.
    Last edited by JD; January 7th, 2008 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.
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    That would suck, and if I survived and managed to kill an officer, I think I might end up in the big house. MI castle doctrice specifically excludes protecting the defending homeowner if the person shot is an LEO acting within his job duties.
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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    I was on an entry team. The sleeping homeowner does not have a chance. Windows breaking on every side of the house, flashbangs going off, a half-dozen guys streaming into your room...you're screwed. Waking up, my natural instinct is to grab for that 1911 on the headboard. BOOM, I'm dead, and many times over. Probably my wife next to me also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead45 View Post
    Discussion going around the office that is interesting. Failure to knock and announce has been in effect from the Supreme Court since 1995. But if someone comes busting through the door are you going to hesitate to fire? Especially if they are dressed all in black? I think personally I am going to get shot and at the very least go to jail for shooting an officer. If I dont get a knock and announce, and someone comes through my door, well I would like to believe for my family's sake that I would not think and I would respond by shooting the first one through. I would feel bad but, but where would I stand legally as I have never heard of this occuring.
    I don't think you have to worry about that if you aren't doing something wrong. Mistakes do happen but if the people who are commin through your door are comming through properly you wouldn't get a shot off. It would be a bad shooting for them.

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    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    I was on an entry team. The sleeping homeowner does not have a chance. Windows breaking on every side of the house, flashbangs going off, a half-dozen guys streaming into your room...you're screwed. Waking up, my natural instinct is to grab for that 1911 on the headboard. BOOM, I'm dead, and many times over. Probably my wife next to me also.
    Thanks for sharing that - this is why I call this scenario every homeowner's worst nightmare. Truly a no-win situation.

    You better hope you have the presence of mind to evaluate rather this is a home invasion or a raid gone wrong. If it really is a SWAT entry team, and you reach for a gun, odds are you won't survive it (unless you're Rambo or an IDPA champ with natural nightvision). Another thing I've considered is, they may not have the red & blue's going outside to confirm their presence, and you may not be able to see badges in the lighting conditions, etc... which could make identifying "gangbangers in fake SWAT vests" apart from "real LEOs" a serious problem.

    We all need to hope that our local law enforcement is responsible about double and tipple checking addresses and information before executing no knock warrants.

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    Senior Member Array Pitmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    I was on an entry team. The sleeping homeowner does not have a chance. Windows breaking on every side of the house, flashbangs going off, a half-dozen guys streaming into your room...you're screwed. Waking up, my natural instinct is to grab for that 1911 on the headboard. BOOM, I'm dead, and many times over. Probably my wife next to me also.
    I'm betting with all of that going on and you wake up in the middle of it you may have enough disorientation that you might not grab the gun and will live.
    Pitmaster

    HELGA: Where are you going?
    HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
    HELGA: Then why take all those weapons?
    HAGAR: First we gotta negotiate...

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    I recall that an elderly black lady in a poor section of town in the South shot up a couple warrant posse boys about 6 months back.
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    Guy sitting in the Mississippi pen for shooting an undercover when they raided with a no-knock warrant (wrong house, BTW)...

    I'll have to research to get particulars.

    Stand by.

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