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Subconscious Issue Shooting a Woman?

3K views 46 replies 40 participants last post by  FN1910 
#1 ·
(hope this is the right forum)

If you had a home like mine, many of you were taught that the weakest thing that a man could possibly do would be to hit or instigate violence against a woman.

I imagine -- whether there were an actually ethical problem or not -- that this could create a subconscious hesitance in pulling the trigger.

In myself, I already wonder if, when faced with the actual prospect of ending a human life, I would do so if necessary... I like to think I would, but until I'm faced with the situation, I can never be sure.

And introduce that subconscious reluctance -- my mother screaming into my mind, if you will... what happens? Even a moment's pause could be fatal...

If a woman were posing an imminent threat of bodily harm to your or innocents around you, what would you do? What should you do?

Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
I was raised to similar standards (looks like we both had good parents) and I understand your point.

I might give a female "threat" a little bit more of a chance to cooperate/surrender than I would a male "threat" before using lethal force in some specific situations. For instance, a male BG at 20 feet with a large knife coming right at me, I'm not going to verbally challenge - I'm aiming COM. A female BG with a knife coming at me at 20 feet, I might yell "FREEZE!" once before applying lead.

When we visualize or speculate about self defense scenarios, it's against a male BG 98% of the time. We haven't put as much thought into scenarios involving female threats. Maybe that's why it's a little harder to contemplate.

But when you boil it down, if someone's pointing a gun at me, or even threatening me with a knife within a 15-or-20 foot radius and I believe their threat is credible, I don't care what gender/color/race/species they are, this is self preservation here.

Hmm... would the range find it unacceptable to bring down some female-silhouette targets? :22a:

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
 
#3 ·
Interesting point. There might be some hesitation---if she's extremely hot--I'd likely be showing up in the E.R. (if I'm so lucky). But seriously-----violent women are not to be played with. IMO, they can be much more aggressive than males with the right (or wrong) buttons pushed. Since I am into self-preservation, I would hope to make the right move and continue on with the earth under me. Sure it would be easy to say I'd take a woman out just like any other BG. Hopefully the situation never presents itself. The mind is an awesome force.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
I was brought up the same but I will shoot or hit a woman that is capable of doing great bodily harm to me.

When I was in my early 20's a friend and his girlfriend got into it at my house and I asked her to leave. She got pissed and grabbed a butcher knife out of the sink. I didn't carry at the time but I squared of with her and told her I was going to mess her up if she came at me with that knife. Lucky for her and me she believed me, because I was scared! Now I was about 100lbs and two feet bigger than this girl but she leveled the field with an 8 inch knife so all bets were off.

Don't hesitate with a mad women. Unarmed you might have some wiggle room but with a weapon things are a world different. Don't forget some of these girls are a might tougher than they look.
 
#6 ·
In myself, I already wonder if, when faced with the actual prospect of ending a human life, I would do so if necessary... I like to think I would, but until I'm faced with the situation, I can never be sure.
First of all, I think you should KNOW the answer to your statement above. If you have a permit and are currently carrying a firearm, you could be putting yourself in more danger than if you were not carrying. Think about it! If you don't have your permit yet, the answer to your statement should be perfectly clear to you without hesitation. This may take some time to come to a conclusion but you must be certain of what action you will take defending yourself. Well....with that being said, you will not see a man or woman, just a BG threatening your life.
 
#7 ·
If a woman were posing an imminent threat of bodily harm to you...
Circumstances will drive everything. But if the threat is real, the response is going to be real.
 
#8 ·
Cap'n - I think what biasedbulldog is saying is that he has decided that he is capable of killing if necessary, and has mental preparations in support of that decision, but that none of us can really know what we will do until we do it. That, IMO, is an honest assessment. We should all be convinced that we are capable of using our equipment as designed - we should make the decision consciously and soberly, and then train/rehearse in that mind set. However, we can never really know...
 
#21 ·
:hand10:

It's not that I doubt the proper course of action or fail to prepare mentally, but until I've had my finger is on the trigger and have looked at another human being in a kill situation... I can't be entirely certain.


As for women being dangerous... my ex-girlfriend's mom was a black belt with extensive hand-to-hand combat experience and training in firearms. Guess who got to be the demo dummy as she showed things like "groin-instep" etc to her daughter? Yours truly. I think she meant it to be intimidating, and I'll have you know I wasn't scared a bit.... :blink:
 
#9 ·
I can certainly understand how you guys might be hesitant because of upbringing and even out of fear of legal repercussions. A jury would probably still look at you sideways if you shot a woman wielding a knife, because they expect you, as the big man, to be able to disarm "the little lady" with your bare hands. :rolleyes:

There's a Rudyard Kipling poem titled "The Female of the Species." It repeats that the "female of the species is more deadly than the male."
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
being a woman, i of course dont have the same view point as you guys, but let me put it in this perspective:
woman on average are weaker then men and physically are less dangerous.
put a gun in a womans hand and this is obviously no longer true.
if there is a threat and you are quickly deciding on how to handle it.
many people only have two options (as far as the gun goes): draw and shoot, or dont draw.
i am one that believes in the third option: draw and dont shoot.
so for example. if there is someone threatening me with a knife i would draw.
whether or not i shoot depends on how far away they are and if they have advanced toward me in any way.
the lines you define concerning what action you will take in a given situation should depends on things like, how capable the person is actually killing you. - which in our case means injuring you enough to get your gun-
the gender of a person could effect how likely they are to be able to do this, but that is the only role gender should play in this decision if even that.
do not underestimate a woman. believe me, there are plenty out there that can beat the crap out of you. there are plenty that have had martial arts training. many that have knives, many with guns, many that are tactical.
so never assume, with ANYONE, that the above may not be true.
and definitely never hesitate pulling the trigger on a woman about to kill you cuz your daddy taught you never to hurt a girl
 
#11 ·
I would consider that my own stance would be never to strike a lady or a girl. Any female that is actively attempting to do me great bodily harm doesn't exactly lay claim to either of those descriptions---she has become a goblin, same as any other.

Now, that's my intellectual take on it, and I don't think I would run across any unsuspected subconscious hangups if it came right down to it...but, then again, that's why they call it a subconscious, now isn't it? :blink:
 
#12 ·
(hope this is the right forum)

If a woman were posing an imminent threat of bodily harm to your or innocents around you, what would you do? What should you do?
The same as I would do against a man.

If it were merely "bodily harm", I would defend myself with what I had available, short of deadly force, to try and escape or defuse the situation.

If the threat clearly consisted of "severe bodily harm or death" and there was no other option it would be met with deadly force. Of course, this is a judgment call on my part but I think I can tell the difference - as can most people (like those on this forum) who think about it ahead of time.

Deadly force is a last resort to protect life and limb when there is no other option, whether against a woman or man. An armed woman bent on extreme mayhem can kill you just as dead as an armed man with the same motivation and opportunity.
 
#13 ·
It's funny you mention this. I've personally had my butt handed to me by a woman nearly 1 foot shorter and 50+ pounds lighter than me. :embarassed:

I haven't had any qualms about force against a woman since that. My parents, boyscouts and even my pastor aren't always right. This is one of those cases where tradition can be a hindrance. Women are every bit as dangerous as Men. It's folly to believe otherwise.

Just my $.02.
 
#14 ·
I was raised by parents that told me that you don't strike a woman also. But in that same household were 8 older sisters, and some of them used to like to kick my butt now and again when I was a younster. I would probably give a woman a little bit more chance to change their actions if I felt threatened, than I would a man. But in the end, if I feel that the threat is real and that I don't have any other choice, they will be going down just as quickly as thier male counterpart would. If I was being attacked by a dog, I am not checking if they are a male or female of the species, they will get the same treatment.
 
#15 ·
Yes my parents taught me to never hit a woman but...

When a BG enters the house and you confront them if you take the time to worry about and figure out the sex of the offender you will likely not have to worry about it because you will be dead.

All PERP's look the same with no discrimination based upon color, race, age or sex, they are all dangerous, deadly and will be treated as such. Don't over think the situation just save yourself and your family's life first, you can wrestle with your conscience after the smoke clears and after the police and coroner have left.

In Vietnam they used little children and women to kill unsuspecting GI's after all who would suspect a 4 year old or a young girl of carrying a live grenade with the pin pulled, and yet it happened there and similar stuff happens all over the world today even in the good old USA just sans grenade. There is a post elsewhere here titled "Be prepared to kill every one you meet" just about says it all.
 
#16 ·
In nature the female of the species tends to be the more dominate.

This is seen quite evidently in the insect kingdom. Take the Praying Mantis for example: for the male, copulation could mean loosing your head...and then being eaten.

The male tarantula stands a really good chance at being bitten during the same act.

Females of the human species tend to be revered as the weaker, less dominate of the sexes and thus generally treated that way. Some women seem to take offense to this thought, while others use it to their advantage.

The short of it is this: in a situation where it is me and mine or the individual posing and immediate threat to life or injury, I don't see a sex, color or religious preference. They are a danger to my welfare and will be dealt with accordingly.
 
#17 ·
Hesitation may cost you your life. Period.

The hardest I have ever been punched was an uppercut from a woman that I was not expecting. I underestimated her ability and will to use force. I have sense learned that a threat is a threat no matter who it is coming from.

I suggest for any man that doubts the ability of a woman to cause them harm, get into a martial arts or self defense class that has women members. You will learn to get rid of those doubts after the first time you get put into a submission because you were going "easy" on them. Also, if you are a woman and you doubt your abilities, get into the same. You will build confidence and increase your ability to protect yourself.

Besides, I imagine that there is nothing more satisfying than using an armbar to make a 6'3" man rapidly tap out while crying "ow ow ow ow ow ow". At least she seemed satisfied when she did it to me.
 
#18 ·
I am sure this is something most guys have at least pondered on in some way but ....... in the final analysis it is "The Threat" - and that alone to which we will have to respond ...... it has to seen as genderless.

I guess we can apply this also to the very young ... who in truth wants to be either shooting at a woman or, a youngster. Sad to say these days the possibility of a young teen employing a gun is way too real and possible and so - again ... ''The Threat'' is the deal ....... not what is attached to it.
 
#19 ·
Like most of you have already said, I think I'll run a split-second mental assessment of the "threat" before me. If it's a 5 ft., 100 lb. woman whose foaming at the mouth while charging me with a knife, I will probably shoot quicker than if it's a 6'-5", 250 lb., 20 year old male that is just standing there with a confused look on his face. When a knife and a little distance is involved, I will also consider running as an option. However, I wonder if the same upbringing that has us ingrained in us that it is wrong to harm a woman might also make us more hesitant to run from a woman. The male ego is weird that way.

P95 touched on another variation of this scenario that we should give a little thought to as well. What if the threat was 10 year old kid. I can't see myself shooting a kid with a knife, but what if he's got a gun? Then what?
 
#20 ·
I would never hurt a woman in anger... or anything for that matter. Its just not me. Despite all the bravado that I sometimes post to make a point, I'm a gentle person.
But, I will do what I need to do to survive. I dont think that my heart is going to care what sex the shooter was that sent the bullet that exploded it. Because of that, I dont care too.

I think its also a training issue... most people dont expect the BGuy to be a Bgirl. Generally, thats true. But, a woman is certainly as capable as being just as dangerous as any man, with a weapon in particular.
 
#22 ·
That's old timey thinking to 'never hit a woman'.

I recall in 6th grade coming home telling my mom about the fight of the day after school (somebody got their behind beat daily year round at school or on the walk home from school). A kid was being beaten by a same aged girl who wound up kicking him in the testicles and when he fell to the ground in pain and began to cry she attacked with vigor and kicked him twice more in the testicles and then began to kick and stomp him in the back and kidneys.
She started the fight with the kid who everyone knew was a dork, and thus perceived to be weak and meat. She wasn't built like a tank either, she just had attitude and was emboldened by the crowd to see the boy cry and bleed and the surety in her mind that he would take a beating. That was the first but afterward I'd seen much of this occur all the way into adult hood.
In response my mom told me at that time that if some girl laid a hand on me to either stop her or if she won't stop then well she wants to act like a boy so fight her like I would a boy. She also said that at no time should I risk or take serious injury as this kid did and let _anybody_ put their hands on me regardless of their gender.
She grew up on a farm in Jim Crow era southern MS second oldest daughter amongst 5 brothers and three sisters and fought all comers daily just to survive, literally. A tough lady she had hands like a catchers mitt and hand speed too. She regularly would beat the tar out of her brothers and those who would come after them into her college years before she moved away.
I'd not go go hitting a woman in the traditional thought sense.
But if she comes at me with vigor and it's me or her, then well she's no different than a male at that point. She wants my lunch and I gotta eat.

BTW girls and women in modern times are the fastest growing segment of violent criminals being incarcerated.
As well checkout these recent news items...

As reported by WFAA (TX):

Unborn child lost in 3 attacks on pregnant women

01:12 AM CDT on Wednesday, June 13, 2007

By SHELLY SLATER / WFAA-TV

DALLAS - A North Texas woman lost her unborn child Monday after she was one of three pregnant victims in separate attacks across Dallas.

Just one month before her due date, Andrea Boyd said a random group of girls attacked her while sitting on her porch outside her home.

"I just remember pushing her from over me and grabbing my stomach," she said.

Boyd said the girls are no strangers to the area, and have been frequently seen driving around.

"[They're] hanging out the car, playing music loud and nothing's being done about it," she said.

One of the girls, Boyd said, ran up to her as she was on the porch and punched her in the face.

"I slipped and fell," she said. "When that happened, all the girls came and they were kicking and swinging."

Boyd said she tried to fight back against the girls.

"So, I'm having to fight two or three girls at one time," she said.

Boyd's mother said the attackers hit her hard.

"I was very nervous and upset about it," she said. "She could have lost her baby. She could have lost her life."

While the attack didn't harm her baby, another woman attacked Monday along Chapel Creek Drive did lose her baby after she too was a victim of violence.

Elizabeth Sandejas was still at Parkland Memorial Hospital Tuesday after she delivered her baby boy only to lose him.

Boyd said the news of Sandejas' loss made her realize how fortunate she was to walk away.

"There's so much of this going on," she said. "I'm lucky, very lucky to have gotten out without my baby being injured."

The third attack occurred along the 1400 block of Marsh Lane in Dallas. Authorities said the expecting mother will also be okay.

As for Sandejas' baby, he is at the medical examiners office. If he died of natural causes, charges won't be filed. If he died of trauma, detectives said they will be looking for a homicide suspect.

E-mail sslater@wfaa.com

The story with video can be found at; http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/d...s/wfaa070612_mo_pregnantattacks.3f72fe97.html
There are also many stories of women attacking other women to kill them and take their unborn baby. Some women have survived such attacks going hand to hand combat with their attacker.

Dept. of Justice 'Bureau of Statistics'

Women offenders

* In 1998 there were an estimated 3.2 million arrests of women, accounting for 22% of all arrests that year.
* Based on self-reports of victims of violence, women account for 14% of violent offenders, an annual average of about 2.1 million violent female offenders.

Source - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#women
Anytime, anywhere, to anyone including even pregnant women sitting on their porch by anyone including girls from the street.
I would have no problem drawing down on a woman if she were to attempt to attack me or mine.

- Janq
 
#23 ·
I was raised under the guide lines of and I quote my father

"Son dont ever hit a girl, unless she hits you then knock her butt out, once she hits you she has put her man shoes on and needs to be kicked down a peg or two"

So if she threatens me.... well
 
#24 ·
If the threat is there...gender will make no difference to the decision I have to make. That given, I might interpret a different threat level from a woman :vs: man...having 'similar' actions...maybe!

OMO
 
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