January 9th, 2008 03:16 AM
Subconscious Issue Shooting a Woman?
(hope this is the right forum)
If you had a home like mine, many of you were taught that the weakest thing that a man could possibly do would be to hit or instigate violence against a woman.
I imagine -- whether there were an actually ethical problem or not -- that this could create a subconscious hesitance in pulling the trigger.
In myself, I already wonder if, when faced with the actual prospect of ending a human life, I would do so if necessary... I like to think I would, but until I'm faced with the situation, I can never be sure.
And introduce that subconscious reluctance -- my mother screaming into my mind, if you will... what happens? Even a moment's pause could be fatal...
If a woman were posing an imminent threat of bodily harm to your or innocents around you, what would you do? What should you do?
"War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams
January 9th, 2008 03:36 AM
I was raised to similar standards (looks like we both had good parents) and I understand your point.
I might give a female "threat" a little bit more of a chance to cooperate/surrender than I would a male "threat" before using lethal force in some specific situations. For instance, a male BG at 20 feet with a large knife coming right at me, I'm not going to verbally challenge - I'm aiming COM. A female BG with a knife coming at me at 20 feet, I might yell "FREEZE!" once before applying lead.
When we visualize or speculate about self defense scenarios, it's against a male BG 98% of the time. We haven't put as much thought into scenarios involving female threats. Maybe that's why it's a little harder to contemplate.
But when you boil it down, if someone's pointing a gun at me, or even threatening me with a knife within a 15-or-20 foot radius and I believe their threat is credible, I don't care what gender/color/race/species they are, this is self preservation here.
Hmm... would the range find it unacceptable to bring down some female-silhouette targets?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
- Margaret Mead
"Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown
January 9th, 2008 04:32 AM
Interesting point. There might be some hesitation---if she's extremely hot--I'd likely be showing up in the E.R. (if I'm so lucky). But seriously-----violent women are not to be played with. IMO, they can be much more aggressive than males with the right (or wrong) buttons pushed. Since I am into self-preservation, I would hope to make the right move and continue on with the earth under me. Sure it would be easy to say I'd take a woman out just like any other BG. Hopefully the situation never presents itself. The mind is an awesome force.
January 9th, 2008 06:06 AM
I was brought up the same but I will shoot or hit a woman that is capable of doing great bodily harm to me.
When I was in my early 20's a friend and his girlfriend got into it at my house and I asked her to leave. She got pissed and grabbed a butcher knife out of the sink. I didn't carry at the time but I squared of with her and told her I was going to mess her up if she came at me with that knife. Lucky for her and me she believed me, because I was scared! Now I was about 100lbs and two feet bigger than this girl but she leveled the field with an 8 inch knife so all bets were off.
Don't hesitate with a mad women. Unarmed you might have some wiggle room but with a weapon things are a world different. Don't forget some of these girls are a might tougher than they look.
Last edited by Captain Crunch; January 10th, 2008 at 03:32 PM.
Reason: Deleted a language workaround
CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!
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January 9th, 2008 08:03 AM
But women are nice and they wouldn't hurt a fly.
And to prove it here is a link,,, http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...men/index.html
Read it and you will see what I mean. I've been reading it and, and, huuuuh, never mind. LOL!!!
January 9th, 2008 08:04 AM
First of all, I think you should KNOW the answer to your statement above. If you have a permit and are currently carrying a firearm, you could be putting yourself in more danger than if you were not carrying. Think about it! If you don't have your permit yet, the answer to your statement should be perfectly clear to you without hesitation. This may take some time to come to a conclusion but you must be certain of what action you will take defending yourself. Well....with that being said, you will not see a man or woman, just a BG threatening your life.
Originally Posted by biasedbulldog
Welcome to Tennessee, the patron state of shootin' stuff.--SHOOTER
January 9th, 2008 08:15 AM
Circumstances will drive everything. But if the threat is real, the response is going to be real.
Originally Posted by biasedbulldog
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 9th, 2008 09:09 AM
Cap'n - I think what biasedbulldog is saying is that he has decided that he is capable of killing if necessary, and has mental preparations in support of that decision, but that none of us can really know what we will do until we do it. That, IMO, is an honest assessment. We should all be convinced that we are capable of using our equipment as designed - we should make the decision consciously and soberly, and then train/rehearse in that mind set. However, we can never really know...
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
January 9th, 2008 09:47 AM
I can certainly understand how you guys might be hesitant because of upbringing and even out of fear of legal repercussions. A jury would probably still look at you sideways if you shot a woman wielding a knife, because they expect you, as the big man, to be able to disarm "the little lady" with your bare hands.
There's a Rudyard Kipling poem titled "The Female of the Species." It repeats that the "female of the species is more deadly than the male."
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
January 9th, 2008 10:21 AM
being a woman, i of course dont have the same view point as you guys, but let me put it in this perspective:
woman on average are weaker then men and physically are less dangerous.
put a gun in a womans hand and this is obviously no longer true.
if there is a threat and you are quickly deciding on how to handle it.
many people only have two options (as far as the gun goes): draw and shoot, or dont draw.
i am one that believes in the third option: draw and dont shoot.
so for example. if there is someone threatening me with a knife i would draw.
whether or not i shoot depends on how far away they are and if they have advanced toward me in any way.
the lines you define concerning what action you will take in a given situation should depends on things like, how capable the person is actually killing you. - which in our case means injuring you enough to get your gun-
the gender of a person could effect how likely they are to be able to do this, but that is the only role gender should play in this decision if even that.
do not underestimate a woman. believe me, there are plenty out there that can beat the crap out of you. there are plenty that have had martial arts training. many that have knives, many with guns, many that are tactical.
so never assume, with ANYONE, that the above may not be true.
and definitely never hesitate pulling the trigger on a woman about to kill you cuz your daddy taught you never to hurt a girl
Last edited by Captain Crunch; January 10th, 2008 at 03:35 PM.
Reason: Corrected spelling, it's "definitely", not "defiantly"
January 9th, 2008 10:33 AM
I would consider that my own stance would be never to strike a lady or a girl. Any female that is actively attempting to do me great bodily harm doesn't exactly lay claim to either of those descriptions---she has become a goblin, same as any other.
Now, that's my intellectual take on it, and I don't think I would run across any unsuspected subconscious hangups if it came right down to it...but, then again, that's why they call it a subconscious, now isn't it?
January 9th, 2008 10:45 AM
The same as I would do against a man.
Originally Posted by biasedbulldog
If it were merely "bodily harm", I would defend myself with what I had available, short of deadly force, to try and escape or defuse the situation.
If the threat clearly consisted of "severe bodily harm or death" and there was no other option it would be met with deadly force. Of course, this is a judgment call on my part but I think I can tell the difference - as can most people (like those on this forum) who think about it ahead of time.
Deadly force is a last resort to protect life and limb when there is no other option, whether against a woman or man. An armed woman bent on extreme mayhem can kill you just as dead as an armed man with the same motivation and opportunity.
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that . . . it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. . . ." Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Justice John Cartwright (June 5, 1824)
January 9th, 2008 11:17 AM
It's funny you mention this. I've personally had my butt handed to me by a woman nearly 1 foot shorter and 50+ pounds lighter than me.
I haven't had any qualms about force against a woman since that. My parents, boyscouts and even my pastor aren't always right. This is one of those cases where tradition can be a hindrance. Women are every bit as dangerous as Men. It's folly to believe otherwise.
Just my $.02.
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington
January 9th, 2008 11:27 AM
I was raised by parents that told me that you don't strike a woman also. But in that same household were 8 older sisters, and some of them used to like to kick my butt now and again when I was a younster. I would probably give a woman a little bit more chance to change their actions if I felt threatened, than I would a man. But in the end, if I feel that the threat is real and that I don't have any other choice, they will be going down just as quickly as thier male counterpart would. If I was being attacked by a dog, I am not checking if they are a male or female of the species, they will get the same treatment.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
January 9th, 2008 11:39 AM
Yes my parents taught me to never hit a woman but...
When a BG enters the house and you confront them if you take the time to worry about and figure out the sex of the offender you will likely not have to worry about it because you will be dead.
All PERP's look the same with no discrimination based upon color, race, age or sex, they are all dangerous, deadly and will be treated as such. Don't over think the situation just save yourself and your family's life first, you can wrestle with your conscience after the smoke clears and after the police and coroner have left.
In Vietnam they used little children and women to kill unsuspecting GI's after all who would suspect a 4 year old or a young girl of carrying a live grenade with the pin pulled, and yet it happened there and similar stuff happens all over the world today even in the good old USA just sans grenade. There is a post elsewhere here titled "Be prepared to kill every one you meet" just about says it all.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
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