It started an argument..
This is a discussion on It started an argument.. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So last night at about 7pm, there is a knock on the door. I certainly am not expecting anyone, and I'm sure that my gf ...
January 13th, 2008 03:48 AM
It started an argument..
So last night at about 7pm, there is a knock on the door. I certainly am not expecting anyone, and I'm sure that my gf is not either. My gf who is standing in the hallway, looks at me as I stand from the couch (playing xbox 360) and put my hand on my gun as I approach the door.
I don't answer the door, not before looking in the peep hole, no one there.. i'm positive I didn't imagine the knock, and when she asks who is there I know I'm not going crazy. I don't open the door, I go to the office and glance out of the curtains to where I can see the front door.. no one.
I think I hear people talking, but I can not see anyone, so at this point I'm wondering what the hell. I go to the bedroom and grab my AR heading to the back door. The whole time (about 45s) my gf is asking who is at the door, and I keep telling her no one I can see, but I can hear someone.
I go out the back door, around to the gate to where I see someone walking across the lawn and to my neighbors house. I ask if I can help them, as they do not belong in my neighborhood (they are wearing some sort of uniform). They say no, they are just delivering flyers (a new pizza joint opened down the road apparently) and are getting paid to deliver the flyers on the doors. I ask them why they are doing it so late (it's dark and rather cold), and they reply that they don't want to work saturday so they are getting it all done today, no matter how long it takes.
My gf (who is new to guns, but is in school for criminal justice and hopes to join a PD when she is done) starts telling me that I am paranoid and nuts for taking my AR with me. I lay out the possibilities of what could have happened, hearing the voices and not seeing anyone at the door.. Still I'm paranoid and over reacting (she only sees good in the world, yes she's a liberal).
I grew up with my dad being a cop, he never answered his front door, always went out the side through the garage (unless it was someone he knew). It became a habit to me, but lately there has been a little more crime in my area, and I was not expecting anyone, neither was she.
Did I over react? What would you have done? I do not answer the door for solicitors (even though that is how I met my gf/fiance.. long story). It wasn't me who answered the door then... :)
Being paraoid is a horrible way to describe being cautious, but am I over reacting to the situation? I'm hoping that my gf (who is currently a sheep) once she starts getting further into crim justice and then the academy will learn about being cautious as she is overly trusting.
January 13th, 2008 03:48 AM
January 13th, 2008 04:54 AM
No more paranoid then me bright lighting a car full of punks and getting ready to draw on them for following me into my driveway.
Just be careful about the possibility of "brandishing" by carrying your rifle out like that.
As far as your GF goes, hopefully she will learn before it is too late.
I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.
January 13th, 2008 06:06 AM
Well, in any situation there can be reaction and overreaction. To my way of thinking, the "over" part means one thing: that you've gone overboard and way beyond in any action you took, given what was "obviously" the nature of the situation.
Originally Posted by monky
Trouble is, you had only a few facts to go on, and it easily could have been something other than the tooth fairie at the door, given those other indicators. A gay and bright liberal take on things doesn't mean that reality doesn't bite, sometimes. Overreaction? Uh, no.
Facts: a knock; the visitors immediately left the porch area; folks were speaking in hushed tones around the corner; it was dark and past the time when neighbors would likely be out. Taken together, all of these indicators could easily have been something bad in the works. Easily.
Overly trusting is also a horrible way to end up in the gutter, but it's all to frequently a contributing factor. Now, that's horrible, because it is easily prevented by pulling the head out, by thinking just for a moment like a criminal in terms of what's possible.
Being paraoid is a horrible way to describe being cautious, but am I over reacting to the situation?
Many choose to think that home invasions will never happen when they're around, when it's not 2am, when one's in a good neighborhood. In reality, all it takes is 1sec to kick the door in and the chutzpah to enter. Many choose to think that two or more people chatting it up around the corner with knock-then-hide encounters after dark must, of necessity, be children playing games, 'cause bad things can't happen in this good neighborhood.
What would you have done?
Overreaction? Paranoid? By what standard? By the standard of never having had to go through a rough attack or two? By the standard of never having one's home violated by intruders? That is not good enough, to make such a judgment. There are indeed wolves in the forest. And some of them do, indeed, want to eat you.
Once burned, twice learned. With an open mind, one can learn quite a lot from a violent encounter. Blind trust isn't one of them, as that's what criminals are banking on. I've been through a few such encounters. They're not anything one wants to go through ... particularly when blind.
In this case, the situation wasn't a crime brewing. Doesn't mean that the precautions were not justified. It simply turns out that the precautions were not required, in this case. What your GF needs to appreciate is how difficult it is to distinguish between the two. The aphorism "better safe than sorry" came from somewhere, and it wasn't from sittin' on the hilltop watching the sun come up. It came from hard experience and wisdom earned from such situations gone wrong.
Your GF is in criminal justice school and plans a career in law enforcement? Now is the time to wake up. Not by force, after an encounter gone sideways, because frankly that could get her killed. Surely, she must see that. Though, sadly, that's how many (most?) folks seem to learn their wisdom, these days. It's a painful way to do it.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 13th, 2008 06:14 AM
I'm not a cop but have a business relationship that has me working with cops on a regular basis. I suspect that it will take less than 1 or 2 days on patrol for your GF to change her views.
Originally Posted by SonofASniper
As to your choice of actions. I probably would have done something similar. As another member stated, be careful with the brandishing.
Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!
"Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell
January 13th, 2008 06:15 AM
Prepared, not Paranoid. Google or search youtube for "911 calls" and let her listen to actual home invasions happening. Bet it won't be long until she's wanting some training herself! Turned my liberal daughter into a CCW 1911 carrying young woman.
January 13th, 2008 08:15 AM
I think I would have reacted the same way. Especially with all of the home invasions going on lately in my town. Nothing wrong with being prepared.
January 13th, 2008 09:07 AM
I don't think you overreacted. However, going outside may expose you a multiple assailants and leave your gf inside possibly unable to defend herself.
There are times were defending in place may be the better option. At least you were able to take the AR with you, not just a hand gun.
As for being paranoid, I have that conversation with multiple people who disagree with me carrying. Others will think you paranoid until they need what you have. Then they will think you prepared.
January 13th, 2008 09:10 AM
Overreaction: Shooting these fellas before having any idea who they were.
Reaction: What you did.
Don't let the sheep get to you. No harm done, you did what you felt was necessary to clear up in the situation and feel safer.
January 13th, 2008 09:34 AM
My wife is fairly pro-gun, she has her CCL and has no issues with guns overall. But she still does this from time to time, saying things like "If you have to think about it you don't need your gun there" or "You and your guns " etc... she never really says I'm paranoid, but you can kind of sense it from time to time I'm working with her tho on being more aware. She is rather oblivious to the world at times. I notice out of the ordinary details as were out and about and she has no clue half the time. I'll say things like "Did you see that guys hat"? and all I'll get back is "huh"? So we play games now, like name the first thing you see on the next table, or the first person who is carrying something, the next person who has something funny on their shirt or what gender is the passenger in the next car that passes etc...
January 13th, 2008 09:46 AM
I see nothing wrong in your response, side of exiting the house with the long gun.
I'll stand by my signature on this one.
Hit my limit for speculation, the sky is falling, and gun owners fighting amongst themselves.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!
January 13th, 2008 09:59 AM
Paranoid? Heck no. Over reacted? Certainly not in answering the door armed, nor in taking care to investigate what was actually going on.
I'm not a big fan of exiting the house with a long arm though. Could have been interpreted as brandishing. The neighborhood nuts also now know that you have at least one high-end weapon in the house......
January 13th, 2008 10:16 AM
I think Clint Smith put it best...
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?" Clint Smith, director of Thunder Ranch
Also, a long gun trumps a handgun in any potential fight.
January 13th, 2008 10:34 AM
In town, with neighbors, my opinion is that you took the wrong tool. AR-15 223? maybe 1000 yard kill range??? dark outside, could be very nasty if shoots were fired and some missed the target.
Shot-gun would be a better choice if you have one. I am also curious, some posters talk of "brandishing" If you are in your own yard/property how could this be brandishing?
I hate pizza, so I may have just OC sprayed them for the fun of it.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
January 13th, 2008 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by SleepingZ
Out of this many post, I'm surprise that only SleepingZ question your choice of weaponery for home defence! You had a handgun, what made you decide not to use it? An AR is much too powerful. Maybe putting your neighbors in danger because you are trying to protect your property. What if the worse happens and you had to shoot. The bullet passes through your target, goes through the window of your neighbor and hits one of their children. Who do you think will be a fault? The person knocking at the door or you? The handgun was your first choice and your right choice. I'm surprise that these people didn't call the police. Right or wrong, I feel you would of been in some kind of trouble. Even if charges are dropped it would of been a hassle. Choose your weaponery correctly!
January 13th, 2008 01:20 PM
Over reaction? Perhaps. I tend to wait inside if someone may possibly trying to enter. In a dark house , on the defense is a better tactic IMO. Also , taking the AR out may well provide neighbors with too much info.
Lets say you do have a home invasion. you do manage to win. However the neighbor has seen you patrolling your property with an AR. The perception a lawyer can spin , is you were itching to shoot someone.
staying inside, having GF call 911 while you wait at the ready shows a defensive intent on your part to protect your person, rather than taking the fight to them.
finally the more walls as backstop the better , rather than having shots fly outdoors.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
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