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It started an argument..

5K views 47 replies 42 participants last post by  Ragin Cajun 
#1 ·
So last night at about 7pm, there is a knock on the door. I certainly am not expecting anyone, and I'm sure that my gf is not either. My gf who is standing in the hallway, looks at me as I stand from the couch (playing xbox 360) and put my hand on my gun as I approach the door.

I don't answer the door, not before looking in the peep hole, no one there.. i'm positive I didn't imagine the knock, and when she asks who is there I know I'm not going crazy. I don't open the door, I go to the office and glance out of the curtains to where I can see the front door.. no one.

I think I hear people talking, but I can not see anyone, so at this point I'm wondering what the hell. I go to the bedroom and grab my AR heading to the back door. The whole time (about 45s) my gf is asking who is at the door, and I keep telling her no one I can see, but I can hear someone.

I go out the back door, around to the gate to where I see someone walking across the lawn and to my neighbors house. I ask if I can help them, as they do not belong in my neighborhood (they are wearing some sort of uniform). They say no, they are just delivering flyers (a new pizza joint opened down the road apparently) and are getting paid to deliver the flyers on the doors. I ask them why they are doing it so late (it's dark and rather cold), and they reply that they don't want to work saturday so they are getting it all done today, no matter how long it takes.

My gf (who is new to guns, but is in school for criminal justice and hopes to join a PD when she is done) starts telling me that I am paranoid and nuts for taking my AR with me. I lay out the possibilities of what could have happened, hearing the voices and not seeing anyone at the door.. Still I'm paranoid and over reacting (she only sees good in the world, yes she's a liberal).

I grew up with my dad being a cop, he never answered his front door, always went out the side through the garage (unless it was someone he knew). It became a habit to me, but lately there has been a little more crime in my area, and I was not expecting anyone, neither was she.

Did I over react? What would you have done? I do not answer the door for solicitors (even though that is how I met my gf/fiance.. long story). It wasn't me who answered the door then... :)

Being paraoid is a horrible way to describe being cautious, but am I over reacting to the situation? I'm hoping that my gf (who is currently a sheep) once she starts getting further into crim justice and then the academy will learn about being cautious as she is overly trusting.
 
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#2 ·
No more paranoid then me bright lighting a car full of punks and getting ready to draw on them for following me into my driveway.

Just be careful about the possibility of "brandishing" by carrying your rifle out like that.

As far as your GF goes, hopefully she will learn before it is too late.
 
#4 ·
As far as your GF goes, hopefully she will learn before it is too late.
I'm not a cop but have a business relationship that has me working with cops on a regular basis. I suspect that it will take less than 1 or 2 days on patrol for your GF to change her views.

As to your choice of actions. I probably would have done something similar. As another member stated, be careful with the brandishing.
 
#3 ·
So last night at about 7pm, there is a knock on the door ... no one there. I certainly am not expecting anyone, and I'm sure that my gf is not either. I think I hear people talking, but I can not see anyone ...

Did I over react?
Well, in any situation there can be reaction and overreaction. To my way of thinking, the "over" part means one thing: that you've gone overboard and way beyond in any action you took, given what was "obviously" the nature of the situation.

Trouble is, you had only a few facts to go on, and it easily could have been something other than the tooth fairie at the door, given those other indicators. A gay and bright liberal take on things doesn't mean that reality doesn't bite, sometimes. Overreaction? Uh, no.

Facts: a knock; the visitors immediately left the porch area; folks were speaking in hushed tones around the corner; it was dark and past the time when neighbors would likely be out. Taken together, all of these indicators could easily have been something bad in the works. Easily.

Being paraoid is a horrible way to describe being cautious, but am I over reacting to the situation?
Overly trusting is also a horrible way to end up in the gutter, but it's all to frequently a contributing factor. Now, that's horrible, because it is easily prevented by pulling the head out, by thinking just for a moment like a criminal in terms of what's possible.

What would you have done?
Many choose to think that home invasions will never happen when they're around, when it's not 2am, when one's in a good neighborhood. In reality, all it takes is 1sec to kick the door in and the chutzpah to enter. Many choose to think that two or more people chatting it up around the corner with knock-then-hide encounters after dark must, of necessity, be children playing games, 'cause bad things can't happen in this good neighborhood.

Overreaction? Paranoid? By what standard? By the standard of never having had to go through a rough attack or two? By the standard of never having one's home violated by intruders? That is not good enough, to make such a judgment. There are indeed wolves in the forest. And some of them do, indeed, want to eat you.

Once burned, twice learned. With an open mind, one can learn quite a lot from a violent encounter. Blind trust isn't one of them, as that's what criminals are banking on. I've been through a few such encounters. They're not anything one wants to go through ... particularly when blind.

In this case, the situation wasn't a crime brewing. Doesn't mean that the precautions were not justified. It simply turns out that the precautions were not required, in this case. What your GF needs to appreciate is how difficult it is to distinguish between the two. The aphorism "better safe than sorry" came from somewhere, and it wasn't from sittin' on the hilltop watching the sun come up. It came from hard experience and wisdom earned from such situations gone wrong.

Your GF is in criminal justice school and plans a career in law enforcement? Now is the time to wake up. Not by force, after an encounter gone sideways, because frankly that could get her killed. Surely, she must see that. Though, sadly, that's how many (most?) folks seem to learn their wisdom, these days. It's a painful way to do it.
 
#5 ·
Prepared, not Paranoid. Google or search youtube for "911 calls" and let her listen to actual home invasions happening. Bet it won't be long until she's wanting some training herself! Turned my liberal daughter into a CCW 1911 carrying young woman.
 
#7 ·
I don't think you overreacted. However, going outside may expose you a multiple assailants and leave your gf inside possibly unable to defend herself.

There are times were defending in place may be the better option. At least you were able to take the AR with you, not just a hand gun.

As for being paranoid, I have that conversation with multiple people who disagree with me carrying. Others will think you paranoid until they need what you have. Then they will think you prepared.
 
#9 ·
My wife is fairly pro-gun, she has her CCL and has no issues with guns overall. But she still does this from time to time, saying things like "If you have to think about it you don't need your gun there" or "You and your guns :rolleyes:" etc... she never really says I'm paranoid, but you can kind of sense it from time to time :scruntiny: I'm working with her tho on being more aware. She is rather oblivious to the world at times. I notice out of the ordinary details as were out and about and she has no clue half the time. I'll say things like "Did you see that guys hat"? and all I'll get back is "huh"? So we play games now, like name the first thing you see on the next table, or the first person who is carrying something, the next person who has something funny on their shirt or what gender is the passenger in the next car that passes etc...
 
#10 ·
I see nothing wrong in your response, side of exiting the house with the long gun.

I'll stand by my signature on this one.
 
#11 ·
Paranoid? Heck no. Over reacted? Certainly not in answering the door armed, nor in taking care to investigate what was actually going on.

I'm not a big fan of exiting the house with a long arm though. Could have been interpreted as brandishing. The neighborhood nuts also now know that you have at least one high-end weapon in the house......
 
#13 ·
In town, with neighbors, my opinion is that you took the wrong tool. AR-15 223? maybe 1000 yard kill range??? dark outside, could be very nasty if shoots were fired and some missed the target.

Shot-gun would be a better choice if you have one. I am also curious, some posters talk of "brandishing" If you are in your own yard/property how could this be brandishing?

I hate pizza, so I may have just OC sprayed them for the fun of it. :wink: :rofl:


Z
 
#14 ·
Out of this many post, I'm surprise that only SleepingZ question your choice of weaponery for home defence! You had a handgun, what made you decide not to use it? An AR is much too powerful. Maybe putting your neighbors in danger because you are trying to protect your property. What if the worse happens and you had to shoot. The bullet passes through your target, goes through the window of your neighbor and hits one of their children. Who do you think will be a fault? The person knocking at the door or you? The handgun was your first choice and your right choice. I'm surprise that these people didn't call the police. Right or wrong, I feel you would of been in some kind of trouble. Even if charges are dropped it would of been a hassle. Choose your weaponery correctly!
 
#15 ·
Over reaction? Perhaps. I tend to wait inside if someone may possibly trying to enter. In a dark house , on the defense is a better tactic IMO. Also , taking the AR out may well provide neighbors with too much info.
Lets say you do have a home invasion. you do manage to win. However the neighbor has seen you patrolling your property with an AR. The perception a lawyer can spin , is you were itching to shoot someone.
staying inside, having GF call 911 while you wait at the ready shows a defensive intent on your part to protect your person, rather than taking the fight to them.
finally the more walls as backstop the better , rather than having shots fly outdoors.
 
#17 ·
IMHO, your only mistake was exiting the house. Tactically, better choice to stay inside and wait. Especially because you have others (your GF) to watch out for.

A jury looks much more favorably at a self defense shooting INSIDE your home rather than out on your lawn. One more good reason to stay inside. Plus, your tactical options are better - you can lay an ambush, so to speak, and give yourself time to ID the "target" and make a decision to or not to use lethal force. Might be worth discussing how to handle such a situation with your GF?

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
 
#18 ·
Not paranoid. I also try to not answer the front door, and do slip out through the garage to see who is there.

I think openly carrying the AR (is that a rifle? I assume) is unwise. I would put a pistol in my pocket, or in my hand hidden from view--behind my back, before exiting.

Those who suggested that staying in the house to see what plays out are probably correct.
 
#19 ·
I see nothing wrong with what you did. I remember about 2 years ago the same thing happened to this family and I resulted in the BG stabbing the father. Fortunately he lived.
 
#20 ·
Did I over react?
No.

What would you have done?
About everything you did, except I would have stayed in the house. If I continued to hear voices from outside, I'd probably call the police.

And I also would consider finding a new girlfriend. Not trying to be harsh--she may be a fine girl otherwise. But do you want to be having this reaction from her for possibly 50 years of marriage? Lots of people marry expecting their mate to change in certain areas. Lots of people end up disappointed.

Again, not trying to be harsh, but that's what I would do.
 
#21 ·
Once you exit your abode, the rules change, and this change is NOT in your favor.

Stay inside. Its safer. Its warmer.

(Besides, inside you have a woman, an X-box and firearms. What more in life do you really need?)

Be curt, tell them to leave and you are calling the police if they don't leave immediately.

Don't tell them you are armed, don't rack the shotgun, don't engage them in conversation about anything.

Tell them to leave. Once.

If they attempt to enter...Life isn't a sport. Life isn't fair. Break into people's home at your peril.
 
#23 ·
1. You're NOT paranoid...just careful.:yup:
2. Next time, stay inside.:gah:
3. Your gf will have a different attitude after about a week on the job.:rolleyes:
 
#24 ·
She is going on her first ride along in two weeks, and I can NOT wait for her reaction. While she is slowly coming around to shooting and is improving rather quickly on her grouping... she still does not understand why I need to be armed everywhere we go.. Of course after the mall/church shootings she understood, but how quickly people forget.

My back door backs up to a green belt, I have a 6' privacy fence, and there is a 3' drop into a creek/storm drain right behind that so someone seeing a rifle wasn't my concern. The shot gun oddly enough is laying in a few pieces so I could not grab that, I dropped it last time I was at my friends ranch and after a quick cleaning that day.. took it all apart to get the mud completely out.

I wondered what I was doing after I got back inside as well... what if someone had been under my back porch? My motion lights are pretty damn sensitive and constantly illuminate squirrels and rabbits, they weren't on, but when I turned the lights on I could see the whole back yard was clear..

Now that I think about it the porch thing bugs me.. might need to fix that.

You're right.. guns, xbox, and gf inside why go outside.. I have to venture to the garage for my beer.. not everything good is inside :)
 
#27 ·
You're right.. guns, xbox, and gf inside why go outside.. I have to venture to the garage for my beer.. not everything good is inside :)
Maybe you aught to consider having a supply of beer inside the house in case of a siege like this...

I mean, could it hurt to have the beer close at hand?
 
#25 ·
You are not paranoid at all. You are alert and cautious. Good job and you handled the situation very well.

She on the other hand is living is a little world I like to call dreamland. I'm sure that looking through the peep hole and not seeing anything she would have opened the door and very possibly been attacked.

If she does become a police officer, and if by some miracle she survives the first year on the job without being attacked or killed, I would bet one million dollars that her naive attitude will be gone for good.

She needs to wake up and realize that there are lots, and lots of people out there that knock on doors and then wait for the person at home to open it to see who it is and then bust in to do their home invasion robbery and maybe even murder. She is too trusting, as most liberals are, and it may get her robbed, raped and murdered someday unless she wakes up now and starts living in the real world.
 
#26 ·
I would prefer a shotgun over a rifle. I would also have stayed inside. Anyone coming into a lighted room from the dark is at a disadvantage, same holds true for someone going form a lighted room to the dark.
Also I would think going outside armed takes it to the offensive level from a defensive level.
 
#29 ·
An AR or a Shotgun is great for defending the hearth.

You however were investigating suspicious "noises or voices" at 7:00 PM in the evening. This time of year, 7:00 PM is DARK. I would want my hand on a handgun, still holstered and the other hand holding a flashlight so that I could identify who or what was making the noise. Longarms are great in some respects, not so great when you have to search.

You left a tactically superior position and an ill prepared defender, IMHO. What if one of the people was hiding in the bushes and jumped you from behind? Let's say he bashed your head in with a rock. You have now armed him with a "cool" toy for him to continue his mayhem.

Myself, I turn on the lights outside, let the dogs out in the backyard and order whoever is making the noise to leave my property. After that I "hunker down" and call 911. This way I have a rear sentry, illumination and a defensive position.

Biker :urla9ub:
 
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