Rock and hard place

Rock and hard place

This is a discussion on Rock and hard place within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This situation is gonna be hard to describe I think so bear with me. I am ''gettin' on'' - right! No longer the 100 yard ...

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Thread: Rock and hard place

  1. #1
    Assistant Administrator
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    Rock and hard place

    This situation is gonna be hard to describe I think so bear with me.

    I am ''gettin' on'' - right! No longer the 100 yard sprinter I was - not as much stamina - I smoke too so - shortness of breath from running is likely to hit me after a bit, tho must say - I still do ''dash'' quite well.

    The consideration tho is - and it is hard to either imagine or make an informed decision - do I stand ground and ''get it on'' - while breathing well and still ''with it'' or, do I run but lose that race and then have to engage, outa breath with shakey - everything!!!

    Of course - how the heck might we ever know which choice to make! My point is that I would fight better before running than after. Maybe I would have time to assess my escape route - maybe not.

    Now tho the dilemma aspect. I wish like crazy to avoid any confrontation and so if something looks like going down I am outa Dodge from choice. However, if in so doing I realize finally that my escape route is inadequate and will result in a block, then, maybe stop the run and engage the enemy sooner rather than later.? Seems logical.

    OK - this is very full of holes and hard to evaluate but let's say broadly - it has to be better to engage while fit than after some exertion and then less than capable by comparison. Remembering of course for some of us - an inherent duty to retreat.

    I practice shooting on the move - this tho is not what I mean. I mean having to ultimately fight your way out of a spot, after you have run and gotten real fatigued.

    Just another ramble - to stimulate your cerebral cortex!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    I would say if you 'reasonably' figure you can create enough distanceby running a quick sprint- haul a$$. Most thugs or crooks dont want to put forth too much effort (or they'd have jobs like the rest of us). The tougher you make it on them just to get started, the more likely they are to move to an easier target.
    That being said, sometimes the best defense is a sudden, violent, vicious offense.

    Dan

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    You will fight better if you are not depleted and shaky. You want to avoid a confrontation, but realize that you no longer have the speed and endurance to run. If a fight is inevitable, then you are probably better off fighting than running, first. If a fight is not inevitable, then you need to take advantage of your age and wisdom to come up with an alternative evasion to running. Disrupt the opportunist, and you are likely to prevent the crime. Delay the serious criminal, and you buy yourself some time to come up with a better plan.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  4. #4
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    perhaps try to shuffle backwards while drawing? Turning your back on a attacker leaves ya wide open.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    See trouble before it reaches you and turns critical.

    Be courteous, be polite, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    Live & breathe in Condition Yellow.

    Stay aware of places of tactical cover and concealment. Never let a suspicious person settle on your "six."

    Stay technically and tactically proficient.

    Get enough sleep, eat healthy and take care of yourself.

    These are the words I live by as I continue to age.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Bad back, bad Knees, Asma, overweight, to run is to throw my lower back in so much pain that they will not have to do any thing to rob me, just step over and take anything they want from my prone screaming in pain self and go. Retreat at any thing other than a walk is not an option for me.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  7. #7
    Member Array cgraham's Avatar
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    Seek Cover!

    Chris, I would say that you might spot an escape route, but if you are physically incapable of using it effectively, it is not a _safe_ means of escape. Therefore, it is a poor option.

    Your best option is to seek nearby cover (gaining distance), and be prepared to defend from there. There is an excellent chance the aggressor(s) won't press an attack if you are in good cover.

    Because your scenario assumes you can run SOME distance from the trouble site, standing your ground is the LAST thing to choose, IMO.

    C

  8. #8
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    Oh my - resurrection

    Yes indeed, achieving/gaining some distance is always going to be priority and even these old bones can react pretty fast - but briefly!

    Sure too second priority will always be cover - hard cover - then reassess. Plus as in any situation - play it as you see it.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #9
    Member Array jay gatsby's Avatar
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    This is something I think about A LOT.

    I practice de-escalation as a religion. I live in Philadelphia so I am usually at condition orange at all times when on the street. I will make big circles to avoid packs of thuggish looking characters and the such. I did just this yesterday while walking the dog.

    The two senarios I have in my head are a.) alone and b.) with the wife.

    a.) I will run like hell given the slightest chance to do so. I am not a coward. Like everyone in this forum I have too much to lose with potential law suits, costs and possibly lost time of work. I own my own business so lost time means lost business.

    b.)I will fight. I just cannot risk my wife getting caught or us getting seperated or anything. Everything I said in a.) goes out the door when you involve my wife in the senario.

    I do think living a life of de-escalation is the way to go. Avoid trouble and trouble won't find you.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Yeah, a subject close to me as well. As noted in a previous post if I'm with my wife my options are stand and fight as she is handicapped. If I'm alone my aging frame can't move like it used to when I was twenty something. I find that I try to stay aware of not only people and the situation but potential cover as well. I don't like the idea of a blind dash with my back to trouble. I'm more of a quick backup to cover and reassess kind of guy these days. At that point if I can run for it safely, I'm gone, if not it's a bad day but the fats in the fire. Hopefully situational avoidance and awareness will keep the odds stacked in my favor!

    BTW, Chris, you CAN quit smoking you know.....
    I'm the worst kind, I quit and never went back. You will get some of that old "wind" back you know.......
    OK, I'll shut up now.

    Eric

  11. #11
    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    If I was worried that my physical conditioning might prevent me from extricating myself from a confrontation, I would also be concerned that it might limit my ability to adequately defend myself. A gunfight is physically taxing. Fighting unarmed is physically taxing. While 30 minutes running may not be as much fun as thirty minutes at the range, it probably does more to prepare you physically for a confrontation.

    I can sympathize with the limitations age and injury bring. I am not as fast as I was 10 years ago and I am in need of an ankle reconstruction. However, I have completed a handful of half and full marathons and I have been passed by a number of people several years older than I while doing so. Amputees are competing in triatholons. Age and injury are only limiting factors if we allow them to be.

    Carrying a concealed weapon requires adjustments to our lifestyle. We modify our method of dress, carry two plus pounds of metal and/or plastic around on our hip and go through the trouble of securing a loaded firearm when we want to go someplace like a post office. If we are willing to make these accomodations in the name of defense of ourselves and others, adjusting our lifestyle to incororate a little rigourous exercise a few times a week should not be an issue.

    Just my $.02.

  12. #12
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    Age and injury are only limiting factors if we allow them to be.
    Nice thought but - easier to say than do!

    I'd agree we should do our best to work thru the limitations to the max but - by accepting those which are insurmountable (you'll know what I mean when real old!) - it is worth having a plan or two so as not to be caught out.

    I'd rather make as much escape as I felt manageable and then do what ever has to be done regarding a threat - than try and kid myself I can do what I once did but can no more - and then finish up in a heap from the excess, not being in any fit state to make a real defence any more.

    It is not all solved by mind over matter IMO - it is however improved by giving oneself a better chance to adopt acceptance and effect a good compromize.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #13
    Member Array kansas_shooter's Avatar
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    Chris.... When driving your normal routes (which should be avoided if possible, take a new scenic route) always be looking for new cover spots if your vehicle was attacked and disabled, where would you go on foot. This keeps your mind sharp and fast and GOD forbid you do get caught in a situation, you will already have some pre-conviced idea where to go, even if you don't play the game for awhile. You can play this game when walking or riding a bike. It's kinda fun.
    One shot. One kill.

    Primary Carry - Taurus PT-111 Mil Pro 9mm DAO with 12 + 1 in the pipe. Holstered in a Brigade OWB M2.

    Secondary Weapon - Taurus PT1911 5" 45acp SA with 8+1. Holstered in a Kydex paddle.

  14. #14
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    KS - in fact this old curmudgeon already does this quite a bit - it is partly a function of being a biker!

    It means I am always on the lookout for, and trying to register - escape routes etc. Because I try and always practice sit' awareness, this does inevitably extend to appraisals of other things like ''anatomy'' of a restaurant, store etc.

    Excellent point tho and a good excercize for any of us - can be fun to do but the purpose is dead on serious! Glad you brought that up.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  15. #15
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    Chris I am like you. Getting old, too overweight and smoke way too many cigarettes. I huff and puff on one flight of stairs. What I would do I'm sure I'll get a lot of critisisim but I would brandish my weapon. Show them I'm ready to stand my ground and hope they back away. I know brandishing is illegal but if I can make the BG back away then that is escaping the situation !!!

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