This is a discussion on Side-of-the-Road Defense within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This happened to me one hot night last August in Phoenix. We all try our best to stay out of bad parts of town but ...
January 30th, 2008 07:08 PM
This happened to me one hot night last August in Phoenix. We all try our best to stay out of bad parts of town but sometimes you can't avoid it. Especially when your friend calls for help when they got stranded there. My buddy had two flat tires, one with a destroyed rim. We had an extra spare for him. We rolled out there at top speed and pulled-up behind him, using my headlights to give him some extra light.
For those who live in the Valley: This happened out near Broadway and 67th Ave at 1am on a Saturday night. Not exactly a wonderful area. You better believe I was carrying. So was another of my friends.
While everyone is working to get these tires changed using a jack in the sand, I'm keeping my scan up. We had seen a lot of people walking the side of the road on our drive through the area. One guy had harassed my stuck friend and his girlfriend quite verbally right before we got there. Cars were constantly slowing to a crawl and staring at us as they rolled by while the passengers gawked. One even turned around and made a few passes at us.
The biggest tactical consideration is light. Car lights are blinding. Especially my own. Oncoming traffic provided some odd shadows in different ways. There are no streetlights and the light from downtown barely exists out there. The first thing I did was establish the breaks in vision - specifically where taillights and headlights disappeared behind signs. The second was station myself behind my car's headlights to keep my night vision as well as I could. I kept to the passenger side of my car, away from traffic. Over all I had a good position and could see almost everything that was going on.
Then they guy returned from before. I could see a person approaching from about 200m out walking on our side of the road - he was approaching from the rear of my car and would walk right past everyone else. I could see taillights and headlights disappear behind him so I could track his progress. I alerted my buddies about him. As he got closer, my stuck friend indicated that he was the same guy who had caused problems before and he had a bottle of something in a paper bag. As he got within speaking distance everyone got quiet. I kept my strong-side away from him and watched closely, hand next to my sidearm but out of sight. I paced right with him, keeping a close eye on him as he passed by without incident. He continued out of sight and I kept my scan up without any other incidents.
My alternative to this? What happens if he makes a move for one of your friends and breaks the bottle over their head or somehow tries to use it as a weapon? If he becomes verbal again, what do you do? Calling for the cops to come sit with you isn't an option for prevention - a couple DPS boys passed right by us without even slowing down.
Any other considerations to be thinking about?
And before anyone asks - my buddy was picking up his girlfriend from a friends house when the otherfriend and boyfriend got into a fight. Just blew a few tires in the wrong place. Could happen to any of us.
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"It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008
January 30th, 2008 07:08 PM
January 30th, 2008 08:29 PM
Sounds like you did fine. If someone attacked me with a bottle, I'd think it would be a good idea to first block the attack/counterattack before trying to draw. If he (not clear who...otherfriend?) didn't keep walking and got verbal again, I'd have to play it by ear. Things get complicated real quick.
As for other considerations - its dark out, headlights all over the place, street noises, people walking around....you're staying pretty busy just keeping your eyes open. I'd try to avoid getting too zoned in on any one thing/person if possible.
January 30th, 2008 08:31 PM
Other than bringing more help, or a tow truck, not more that you could do. Got there quick, got the tires changed and kept a lookout.
If someone was going to do something stupid to you, then they are going to do it, no stopping it.
Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
See also Sheep
January 30th, 2008 08:33 PM
Don't the guys changing the tires have tire tools in their hands? If there are two guys on the road side of the car working and your on the shoulder side or the auto watching. Just give the heads up when the guy gets close enough and have one of the two guys on the road side stand up and watch the guy pass ready to intervien if guy with bottle makes a move towards guy working.
Personally, I think the guy would have to be off a bunch in order to mess with multiple guys in that situation. When it was just your friend and his gal, that isn't as much of a threat.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
January 30th, 2008 08:34 PM
I always carry a 2 million CP spotlight to help light up work areas. It is also a great defensive tool, blinding the willies out of all sorts of vermin if needed. Otherwise, sounds like you did well. Glad all was OK.
NRA Life Member
"But if they don't exist, how can a man see them?"
"You may think I'm pompous, but actually I'm pedantic... let me explain the difference."
"Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything."
January 30th, 2008 10:14 PM
Good move...the 'dark side' hates the light...
Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
January 30th, 2008 11:39 PM
I agree that a good flashlight would be of great value in a situation like that. No one wants to charge a blinding light. I seem to remember a thread where a guy held a BG at bay at night with a Surefire. In your case, situational awareness was critacal and probably kept a bad situation from getting worse. Nice job.
January 31st, 2008 07:29 AM
Sounds to me like you did fine. I won't comment on "what if's" because there are to many variables that can affect my actions. Glad everything worked out for all of you.
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
February 1st, 2008 05:30 PM
If they are doing nothing other than walking, it's their right. If they attack me with a bottle, it's my right to use deadly force against them I will.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
February 3rd, 2008 12:55 AM
You did good. SA is 95%, and yours was good. Sometimes the badguys just come and it has to be dealt with. You had a good outcome, probably because of your attitude and tactics.
February 3rd, 2008 02:44 AM
ya did it right, no sense second guessing what if's.
February 3rd, 2008 03:23 AM
Great SA. Your Demeanor probably made you look not like a victim. Sounds like you may have helped keep the predators at bay.
February 3rd, 2008 03:43 AM
67th and broadway sucks. Wouldnt touch that place wiht a 20 foot pole. I live on 67th ave the 101 (northside) and its a nice place, but even here at night one has to be on there guard (as one always should), but latley there has been an increase in transiet(bum) activity. (I usually help out the homeless by giving them a water bottle and small bag of pretzels (keep both in the back seat)) and many of them seem to have a drug addiction noticed from the 'ticks' they seem to have from not getting their tweak fix. Enough ramblin, you did a fine job.
"A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington
February 3rd, 2008 04:17 AM
Originally Posted by mojave_pistolero
South P sucks... Grandpa used to live there right next to S. Canal. Lots of shady folks walking by. He was always armed, as was I.
Your actions were sure to keep the predator from seeing you as a
February 26th, 2008 11:51 PM
I believe that if the BG was approaching one of your friends that you would of closed the distance by the time he attacked. You or your friends can now take controle of the situation. If at any time the BG is attempting to use the broken bottle to strike a friend then you shoot him down. A bottle isn't really a deadly weapon a broken bottle most definetly is.
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