It's 0200 and you see your work truck getting cleaned out - Page 3

It's 0200 and you see your work truck getting cleaned out

This is a discussion on It's 0200 and you see your work truck getting cleaned out within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; IMHO, before getting in that situation it would be wise to seek out local legal advice from an attorney knowledgeable on local gun and self ...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 63
  1. #31
    Member Array czydj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    US of A
    Posts
    58
    IMHO, before getting in that situation it would be wise to seek out local legal advice from an attorney knowledgeable on local gun and self defense laws. If that attorney is familiar with local prosecutor and court sentiment on cases like this, it would be a bonus.

    I was fortunate, during my Florida CWL class, I was referred to a book reviewing our local law and describing acceptable behavior. It was written by an attorney who practices law in my home state and was an eye-opening read for me. It helped me a great deal on what I can do, might be able to do and what I should never do.

    Again, only my humble opinion, but I would not be guessing about this. Know the law and obey it or it could cost a body a whole lot more that a work truck full of tools...


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,411
    OK. Company service truck (not in the satellite photo) company welder/generator, tanks, and air compressor. My personal tools, and insured (inland marine policy) with pictures of every drawer and compartment and a list. The company will not reimburse me for theft of tools.

    The company truck nor my personal truck will fit in the garage.

    I no longer own a HD shotgun. Traded it in for the wifes BE.

    The patio at the back of the garage has a 4ft tall cinder block wall.

    My line of sight from the kitchen window and the back door will not let me get anything other than color of the vehicle. If I do spook them into running, I will not be able to get out there in time to get a plate number.

    My best chance of flanking them and getting a plate number is to exit the house through the front, and go through the neighbors yard to the north to get to the alley, but at that point I am no longer on my property.

    Now I am a field service mechanic. My truck is FULL of heavy blunt objects that could easily be weapons. 3/4 & 1" drive ratchets, 36" crescent and pipe wrenches, hammers, lots of steel in the bed, and so on.

    I have been pondering this scenario since I started working for them in July of 07. I am the sole income for my family (Wife, two ferrets, three cats, and a home burglar alarm in training). One month of no work is not a good thing.

    Principle - I will not be a victim under any circumstance. The police station for our little 1 square mile of inner city town is 5 blocks away. I kid you not, 911 after 11pm is a minimum of 5 minutes (called in shots fired next door a few years ago).

    I am still deciding if I go through the neighbors yard to flank them or straight out to the patio (cinder block will stop a bullet better than the cedar fencing) if they are armed with other than my tools. Either way, I am on 911 with my cell phone, and my address is given before I exit the house with the cell clipped to my person.

    If I fire a warning shot (unlikely), it will be into the dirt a few feet forward of my feet. A prevention of fleeing may include shooting out a tire or two, maybe the radiator as well. I will not shoot a person unless the requirements for it are met.

    My intentions will be to stop them and detain at least one of them until the police arrive. How exactly... I am still trying to figure out the plan.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,994
    Looks like Colorado's statutes covering protection of property and premises are covered in CRS 18-1-704 through 18-1-707.

    It appears as though you've got an absolute right to defense of persons against intrusion in your home, but once you go outside you're looking at the premises and property statutes. There's reference to only being able to use lethal force to defend premises in the case of arson. Am assuming that precludes deadly force unless you respond to their direct attack on your person, in which case the person defense statute applies. Got to love laws. It's so amazingly clear, sometimes, so much so that it's hard to do good and be seen as doing good when you're doing good.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; February 3rd, 2008 at 06:47 PM. Reason: My third grade English teacher would be rolling in her ... well, you get the idea.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,411
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Looks like Colorado's statutes covering protection of property and premises are covered in CRS 18-1-704 through 18-1-707.

    It appears as though you've got an absolute right to defense of persons against intrusion in your home, but once you go outside you're looking at the premises and property statutes. There's reference to only being able to use lethal force to defend premises in the case of arson. Am assuming that precludes deadly force unless you respond to their direct attack on your person, in which case the person defense statute applies. Got to love laws. It's so amazingly clear, sometimes, so much so that it's hard to to good and be seen as doing good when you're doing good.
    Tell me about it. So much is left to the interpretation of the LEO on scene, then the ADA, DA, AG, Judge and so on. Good money that if you had all of them in the same room, none of them are going to agree.

    The CRS only states use of force is allowed to defend property or prevent the commission of a crime, to what extent is where the fog comes in, and no light towers for the civilians.

    18-1-706. Use of physical force in defense of property.
    Statute text

    A person is justified in using reasonable and appropriate physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what he reasonably believes to be an attempt by the other person to commit theft, criminal mischief, or criminal tampering involving property, but he may use deadly physical force under these circumstances only in defense of himself or another as described in section 18-1-704.
    History

    Source: L. 71: R&RE, p. 409, 1. C.R.S. 1963: 40-1-806.
    Annotations

    Cross references: For theft, see part 4 of article 4 of this title; for criminal mischief, see 18-4-501; for criminal tampering, see 18-4-505 and 18-4-506.
    Annotations

    ANNOTATION
    Annotations

    Am. Jur.2d. See 6 Am. Jur.2d, Assault and Battery, 64, 65, 69; 40 Am. Jur.2d, Homicide, 177, 178.

    C.J.S. See 40 C.J.S., Homicide, 149-152, 163.

    Law reviews. For article, "Self-Defense in Colorado", see 24 Colo. Law. 2717 (1995).

    One cannot instantly kill in defense of property. While a man may use all reasonable and necessary force to defend his real and personal estate, of which he is in the actual possession, against another who comes to dispossess him without right, he cannot instantly carry his defense to the extent of killing the aggressor. If no other way is open, he must yield and get himself righted by resort to the law. Bush v. People, 10 Colo. 566, 16 P. 290 (1887) (decided under G. S. 721).

    When instruction on defense appropriate. A defendant is entitled to a jury instruction on an affirmative defense only if evidence in the record supports it. Here record does not support entitlement to instruction. People v. Goedecke, 730 P.2d 900 (Colo. App. 1986).

    Previous Document
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Away - Health Problems
    Posts
    17,353
    If you work wont pay for your tools and stuff they need to provide you a safe place to park the truck..

    work tools are not worth die'in for if stuff goes wrong.. .. it cost work about 1k for mine being robbed no they didn't take everything or it would have been a lot more

  6. #36
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,425
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    CO law allows for protection of property, and use of force to prevent or stop a commission of a crime.
    If this is the case and it's legal to use force (lethal force?) in your state I would have called 911 and then commenced firing. If lethal force is legal to protect property I see no reason to let the criminals get away to rob another poor schmuck tomorrow night! In my neck of the woods it is not legal, however the deputy sheriff told me after my burglary that if I had caught them outside (not in their vehicle) he would have "found" a weapon of some sort on the BGs. I liked that deputy allot!
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  7. #37
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,425
    Oops maybe if I'd had read sticks last post closer I'd have seen that lethal force is not legal. Oh well.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #38
    Member Array Danger Mouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cumberland, VA
    Posts
    362
    Here in VA it is NOT legal to use deadly force to protect ones property.
    I would arm myself, call the police, and wait. You really have no idea how many of them there is out there.
    Think twice
    Buy once!

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    854
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The company truck nor my personal truck will fit in the garage.

    I no longer own a HD shotgun. Traded it in for the wifes BE.
    Is there another place you can park the truck? Is work too far away?

    Get a shotgun & nice LED light to go with it. They don't cost that much. You can get a Remington 870 for about $230. Sometimes they have rebates on them to make it about $200.

  10. #40
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    I might toss a DD in that general direction. Those tend to get people to leave an area in a hurry. Before that, Im going to sit tight and gather as much information as possible. No amount of tools/money is worth getting into a fire fight over.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #41
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,913
    A grenade would be great.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  12. #42
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    174
    Sticks, you need to talk to your insurance agent for two reasons:

    1. Get a policy that covers any lost revenue. I have this on my policy and it's pretty cheap I think. I'd also suggest having a minimum of $1000 in an emergency fund, preferably 3-6 months expenses. If you get laid off/injured/fired/have a sick kid . . . you're still in the same mess.

    2. It shouldn't take your insurance company a month to get your check. If that's really the case, you need to switch companies. I figure on no more than a week for replacement, and I end up with a new set of tools. Certainly not a situation worth risking life or jail over.

    Should I actually catch someone in my driveway, I'd probably just open the door and let the dogs do the talking through the screen. They're pretty good communicators. I hate being a victim, but I hate lawyer's bills and paperwork more.

    So keep on training that alarm! They'll eat you out of house and home, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,411
    Quote Originally Posted by MnemonicMonkey View Post
    Sticks, you need to talk to your insurance agent for two reasons:

    1. Get a policy that covers any lost revenue. I have this on my policy and it's pretty cheap I think. I'd also suggest having a minimum of $1000 in an emergency fund, preferably 3-6 months expenses. If you get laid off/injured/fired/have a sick kid . . . you're still in the same mess.

    2. It shouldn't take your insurance company a month to get your check. If that's really the case, you need to switch companies. I figure on no more than a week for replacement, and I end up with a new set of tools. Certainly not a situation worth risking life or jail over.
    1. Not sure if my company even offers that as a rider. We have been trying to get the savings built back up for the last 5 years, but we just can not catch a break. Living pretty much paycheck to paycheck. What we did have just got chewed up by my month long layoff and the rest will get sponged up until I go back to the 60 hour weeks and certified (Bacon Davis Wages) jobs.

    2.It will take the full month to get all of the tools replaced. I will have most of it within the first two - three weeks, but the rest will take a while. I would imagine that there will also be a waiting period for the insurance to see if they are recovered (like a stolen car).

    In the event that this does happen, I am not just going to walk on out there saying "What the ***** are you doing?" I do intend to have 911 in route and they will know who I am (only guy in PJs), that I am armed, and I will asses the situation as best I can to determine # of BGs and evaluate the risk before acting.

    Ideally if I could get to the BG car (I would presume it is running or at least the keys are in the ignition) and disable it by pitching the keys into the ??? it would be a real good start. The perps can run, my stuff is not driving off, and I got me lots of prints for the po po.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,933
    I'd conceal like normal, step out and confront the BG's saying something like "Get the heck off of my property". See what they do from there. If they choose to engage, its their death warrant they're signing. Otherwise they'd run.

  15. #45
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    "Get the heck off of my property". See what they do from there. If they choose to engage, its their death warrant they're signing. (Or yours)Otherwise they'd run.
    "Just blame Sixto"

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Under age Gangbanger Tagging my Work Truck
    By chuck2780 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
  2. Ultimate truck gun, or truck mounted laser
    By Dakotaranger in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2007, 06:52 PM
  3. M44 all cleaned up
    By cpmiv in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 1st, 2007, 03:04 AM
  4. Cleaned me out....
    By saltysquid in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: August 11th, 2006, 07:28 AM

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors