What kind of insurance policy should I buy against civil suits?

What kind of insurance policy should I buy against civil suits?

This is a discussion on What kind of insurance policy should I buy against civil suits? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If I ever have to defend myself in a lethal situation (pray that never comes) and I am found innocent in court but am sued ...

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Thread: What kind of insurance policy should I buy against civil suits?

  1. #1
    Member Array Ridge Runner's Avatar
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    What kind of insurance policy should I buy against civil suits?

    If I ever have to defend myself in a lethal situation (pray that never comes) and I am found innocent in court but am sued in a civil trial, what kind of insurance policy should I have to cover me?

    How much money should it have in it?

    How do I ask about it without drawing attention to me from my insurance rep?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    I take it Maine does not have a Castle Doctrine? If not, write your Sens/Reps to get it into law.

    Would homeowners insurance cover something like that? If not, maybe try pre-paid legal.

  3. #3
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    Make it simple...move to FL! Once you're found innocent of any charge...it's over. It's a castle doctrine thing!
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  4. #4
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    While your intentions seem true, and your concerns definitely understandable---but, looking for extra liability insurance pertaining to the possible defensive shooting scenario could possibly be seen as some form of premeditation. Don't take this the wrong way, just tossing that out there, and if it is taken wrongly by mistake, then I'd apologize.
    How do I ask about it without drawing attention to me from my insurance rep?
    That would be the key, but if you feel that hiding the facts is necessary in order for you to acquire what you're needing, look at other options. (IMO) Look up any city attorney in the yellow pages and ask if they would have any suggestions. You can remain anonymous that way, and may find some good advice and things you didn't know.

  5. #5
    Ron
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    Distinguished Member Array Ron's Avatar
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    I am guessing here now, but if I were you, the first place I would check would be the NRA. If they don't have what you are looking for, they may be able to refer you to the right place.

    Good luck.

    Ron
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  6. #6
    Member Array kelsey's Avatar
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    You can add an umbrella rider on your homeowner's policy for protection against civil lawsuits. Talk to your insurance agent and your attorney. We added a $1,000,000 umbrella civil lawsuit rider on the advice of our attorney who also carries concealed at all times. New York State residents have to take extra precautions with living in a thug hugging State.

  7. #7
    Member Array nikdfish's Avatar
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    Yeah, we added a one million umbrella to ours as well. Wasn't that expensive once the last young'un was off our vehicle insurance. Gun ownership or concealed carry was not one of the things they asked about in looking at potential liabilities to set the premiums. They were more interested in things like rental properties ...

    Nick

  8. #8
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    Many insurance companies will NOT cover you if the shooting is intentional (i.e. you intentionally shot an intruder in your house). You should call your homeowner policy holder to have them clarify and get it in writing.

    I think USAA offers coverage in a civil suit actions. Not sure of amounts. If your not prior or current military, then NRA endorses a policy that offers criminal and civil insurance in event of self-defense.

    NRA Insurance - Share the Belief, Share the Benefits - Excess Personal Liability: Self-Defense
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    I agree with Kelsey. Pick up a $1mil umbrella policy. Ask the agent if there are things that it won't cover. You could also throw out several ambiguous hypothetical scenarios and then throw in, "What if I shoot some guy that is strangling my neighbor?" While that does imply you have guns, it doesn’t imply that you carry everywhere. If the police and DA rule that your shoot was justified, you want enough insurance to provide an out-of-court settlement to the BG and/or his heirs. If you have a strong case, he’ll take the settlement because he knows he will lose in court.

    That’s my opinion. I am open to others.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Just make sure your HO policy doesn't preclude intentional acts regardless of their lawfulness.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    While your intentions seem true, and your concerns definitely understandable---but, looking for extra liability insurance pertaining to the possible defensive shooting scenario could possibly be seen as some form of premeditation.
    Some insurance pays for your defense and indemnifies you if you loose.

    Nobody usually asks counsel who is paying them at trial, and if asked, that's confidential.

    In a civil action, if before or during litigation we settle, the plaintiff signs a release before getting the check, and the check they receive will be from your attorney's trustee account, i.e., it will not have an insurance companies name on it.

    If you lose at trial and payment is ordered, either payment will commence in the same manner as above, or it goes to an appeal, in which case they won't be seeing money till that's settled. Then, if payment is ordered, same method as before, at least for the amount of the policy.

    In a criminal trial, unless it is alleged that the funds used to pay counsel were in and of themselves illegal money (which doesn't happen unless their is a whole lot of other things going on in the client's life like tax fraud, money laundering and other such fun stuff...) the payment of counsel is irrelevantly unless representation of the client is compromised by the person writing the check. *

    Also, unless specifically asked, who is going to mention the policy?

    You? I hope not.
    Your lawyer? Not if he has a brain.

    The police are likely to be searching for physical evidence related to a shooting, retracing your movements that day until the event, searching for a link between you and the victim, seeing if you were having a relationship with the deceased, buying drugs from the deceased, or any other criminal motive for the shooting that can be used to charge you with a crime.

    Also be aware this isn't insurance on the victim of the shooting, so in that case you have no expectation of payoff if the victim dies.

    As to criminal defense, if I read it right, it is only reimbursement after the matter is concluded.

    That means you don't get to make a claim on it till its over and done.

    You still have to pay for counsel. You just do so knowing if he does a good job you can submit your bills and get that second mortgage paid off.


    * The insurance carrier, who is not a lawyer, attempting to take control of the case and act in a manner benefiting the company, not the insured, and the lawyer going along with it.

  12. #12
    Member Array nasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmedAviator View Post
    Many insurance companies will NOT cover you if the shooting is intentional (i.e. you intentionally shot an intruder in your house). ... <--snip-->
    I don't think I understand what you're saying here. If you didn't intend on shooting something wouldn't that be a negligent discharge? I would think if anything negligence would not be covered. What should be covered is if you were forced to (intentionally) shoot a deadly threat.

    I would appreciate if you could clarify a little bit. I apologize if I'm being slow and not understanding.

    Thanks.

    Take care,

    nasm

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Insurance companies defend negligence and recklessness, not intentional actions.

    Self defense is an intentional action.

    They are mutually exclusive.

    To give you an example, I had an insurance claim in my office in which A was a pedestrian who was hit by B who was driving the car.

    No argument, A was hit by B with B's car.

    Now, you'd think the insurance company would want to settle...but no. They denied indemnity.

    You see, A and B had an ongoing "disagreement" about C, who was B's baby's momma and A's current hookup.

    B intentionally tried to run A down and kill him, but did a bad job of it.

    B has liability, no question...but the insurance company considers it outside of their policy coverage and isn't paying for the claim's defense or the judgment.

    Now, in application to criminal law...

    Generally speaking, you can not have a negligent discharge declared self defense.

    If you were acting in self defense, you knowingly and willingly shot the criminal. Putting a bullet into someone is usually a bad thing, but in this case, based on the facts, no crime was committed by you in shooting someone because the law allows for such actions.

    If you were acting in a negligent or reckless manner and you shot someone, you have criminal liability for your actions which you knew or should have known would put someone's life in danger of grave injury of death.

    That is why when someone says "The gun...it just went off..." it make claiming self defense that much harder.

    Did you intend to shoot the criminal, and in fact shoot the criminal in self defense? Yes? Good. We can call it self defense and work with that.

    Did you not intend to shoot the criminal and oops, the gun just went off? Different applicable law to work with.

  14. #14
    Member Array kelsey's Avatar
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    Umbrella riders on your homeowners insurance do not cover you in a criminal defense, only civil. Whether you are found innocent or guilty of self defense in the criminal case, you are more than likely to have a civil lawsuit claiming negligence and recklessness on your part filed against you by either the criminal or the family of the criminal trolling for dollars. If your an NRA member, you can purchase Civil Liability Insurance and add on Criminal Defense Insurance that will pay your legal fees up to the amount of coverage you chose when charges against you are dropped or your found innocent in a criminal trail. By all means, get insurance protection.

  15. #15
    Member Array halfcrazy's Avatar
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    Maine has the Castle doctrine laws i believe? pretty shore our govener passed that into law?

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