Multiple Threats…What would YOU do? - Page 3

Multiple Threats…What would YOU do?

This is a discussion on Multiple Threats…What would YOU do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, Brian. It's your turn. What would you do?...

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Thread: Multiple Threats…What would YOU do?

  1. #31
    kpw
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    Ok, Brian. It's your turn. What would you do?


  2. #32
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Must be good to have a training partner at home.
    You have no idea, lets just say that grappling practice can get interesting



    Quote Originally Posted by kpw
    I'd hate to think anyone would try to outdraw a guy with a knife from 5-6 feet away, let alone 2 of them behind you.
    This is where things get cloudy, again going back the the average 21 foot rule, you always see is a LEO scenario, with the firearm in plain view, the BG CAN SEE what's being reached for. If the BG had planned for confronting an armed victim, they'd just shoot you and riffle through your corpse. The key to this scenario is faking your way to the gun, taking out the BG with the ranged weapon, and putting as much distance between you and the BGs with the contact weapon, as soon as BG1 with the gun is hit, I'm gone! unless BGs 2 and 3 are champion knife throwers, I should be OK.

    Not to mention that all the two guys behind me are going to see is me going for a wallet and all of a sudden there's a very loud, disorientating, earth shattering KA-Boom of a .45 ventilating their freind...What do the "homies" do during a drive by where unexpected gunshots occur? They hit the dirt, while they're doing that, I'm tripple timing it to cover. When they figure out what just happend, all they're hopefully going to see is their buddy lying on the deck with a pair of .45 caliber sized sucking chest wounds, and I doubt that any home boy mugger is going to give chase after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw
    Moving and getting space/obstacles between you is your only chance. If your shooting them as they are on you, it's too late. The idea is to survive and that's going to be hard to do with punctures and lacerations to organs and arteries.
    Exactly! But in order to do that, you have to clear the way to get that distance, and you still have the ranged attack of BG1 to worry about.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw
    Doesn't matter if you shoot them after the fact. Honestly, up close, knives scare me as much and probably more than guns do. These what if scenarios can be kind of interesting.
    Damn skippy, that was the one flaw in Lima's scenario, hanging around to see what BG 2 and 3 are doing, there's a time for flight, and a time for fight, and we all need to know which to do when, and in what combination.

    By expediting my rear away from BGs 2 and 3, I can create the needed distance and choose a fighting ground of my chooising IF they give chase.


    I also have to disagree placeing the purse on her chest to cover the draw from the right side, BG one is going to see this, and wonder what's up as he sees her hand going AWAY from the purse, he might spook and shoot early. This is the one time where purse carry could actually work, she can fake pulling the wallet from her purse and come out shooting while running. Maybe Valentines day will bring Lima a lighter .380 as a strictly purse gun to supplement her Wilson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limatunes
    I believe that I do. I know how I can perform under stress, I also have great confidence in my ability to move and shoot.
    This is one thing I was happy to see in this thread. If you don't bellieve you can win, you're probably going to loose.

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes
    Furthermore, if I may say so myself, I have great timing in my follow up shots on multiple targets.
    See the bit on flight vs. fight above.

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes
    I also know that I can point shoot pretty darn good at close distances.
    Again here's a key feature, the ability to be flexible on where you choose to shoot from: see the bit on sterotypical 21' rule. The quicker the gun can be put into action against BG1, the better.

  3. #33
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    You have no idea, lets just say that grappling practice can get interesting
    LOL... if it ever got that interesting with my grappling partners, I'd have run away, screaming like a girl!

  4. #34
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    1. What is your primary goal in this situation?
    I am going to survive.I will do that by killing all three scuzballs.The only difference is that they don't know that yet...thus that is to my advantage.

    What are you going to do and how are you going to accomplish it.

    That is, if you move, what direction are you going to move and with what footwork? Are you going to try and create distance? If using your gun, are you going to use a two handed shooting platform with your arms extended? Provide as many details as you can envision in this situation as to what you would do.
    Drawing and shooting with the two handed arms extended platform is a waste of time and tactically unsound, not to mention slow.

    I will draw and shoot from retention. I have have to turn the holster and shoot through it I will. If I draw I will clear and turn the gun into the immediate threat,shooting the one with the gun. I will run directly toward him, and use him for shielding if he is still standing. If not I will run over him and while attempting to put a vehicle in between me and the two that are about to die with knives, shooting behind me if I must. If they are dedicated enough or stupid enough to pursue, running in between two parked cars will lessen their avenues of approach and funnel them into a shooting lane, a kill zone where I will be standing aiming my handgun at them and more than likely shooting into their still standing carcasses.

    A situation like that requires thinking out of the box, because you are screwed. Knowing that requires extreme measures. Getting in between two parked vehicles and opening a door will slow them enough and prevent an immediate route to you.Now they are on the defensive, because YOU have the ranged weapon, not them.

    Of course, much of that depends on getting in between two cars. If I cant make it that far, the man with the gun goes first. The other targets will determine who dies first. In any case, whether I die or not is up to the Creator. If that happens so be it. If it does, it wont be for lack of a fight and more than likely I will leave a trail of hot brass wherever they find me laying.

    I don't give up and I will cheat. If you bring the fight to me, I have every intention of winning, cause I am stubborn like that.If that means picking up a shopping cart and hurling it that is what I will do. If I have to get underneath a truck to keep from getting cut, I will. If I have to jump in the back of a pickup truck to gain elevation and some cover, I will. If I have to run across the hood and roofs of cars to keep from getting cut I will. If I have to jump in an unlocked vehicle and lock it I will and I will shoot you in the face when you try to break in. If I happen to see a stray cat, I will pick it up and throw it in your face. A rock, a discarded bottle,my belt, even sand or gravel will become my weapon. Or course,all of the above means that I have run out of ammo.

    If I die, it certainly wont be for lack of trying to survive.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  5. #35
    Member Array Dan M.'s Avatar
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    I would say, "You're making me mad. You won't like me when I'm mad." Then I would turn green as my muscles burst out of my shirt and I would smash them.

    Or, just as believable, I would take a quick step forward (action beats reaction), and with my left hand pull BG #1's gun off line to my left while kicking him in the nuts as hard as I can with my right foot, then do a 180, still to the left, trapping his gun arm under my right armpit while transferring my grip on his gun hand from my left to my right hand as I turned and then I would make BG #1's trigger finger shoot BGs 2 and 3. Then I would 180 back toward my right and hit BG #1 in the right temple with my right elbow. Then I'd go buy a lottery ticket.

  6. #36
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M. View Post
    I would say, "You're making me mad. You won't like me when I'm mad." Then I would turn green as my muscles burst out of my shirt and I would smash them.

    Or, just as believable, I would take a quick step forward (action beats reaction), and with my left hand pull BG #1's gun off line to my left while kicking him in the nuts as hard as I can with my right foot, then do a 180, still to the left, trapping his gun arm under my right armpit while transferring my grip on his gun hand from my left to my right hand as I turned and then I would make BG #1's trigger finger shoot BGs 2 and 3. Then I would 180 back toward my right and hit BG #1 in the right temple with my right elbow. Then I'd go buy a lottery ticket.
    Hey, no fair! I've seen both those movies! All this time and Hollywood had the answer.

  7. #37
    Member Array Dan M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Hey, no fair! I've seen both those movies! All this time and Hollywood had the answer.
    I left out the speech before the action in my second response.

    "You broke the first rule in a crisis situation. First you negotiate, then you attack. You didn't negotiate. You don't know what kind of enemy I am."

    I like the direction that Lima went. I might try faking a heart attack (an advantage of being older) as a diversion and stagger sideways to crumple against a car and mask a draw. I hope it would be fake anyway.

  8. #38
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    I would toss my hybrid wallet – Its half wallet half flash bang.

    Or

    If I felt that I was going to get shot by them at better then 70%
    – I would do what Brian’s Fight Video teaches.
    During the execution of the training I’ve learned - I believe I might get hit by gun fire at about 70% in that setup.
    I would try and get as many of my rounds at the attackers before I was out of the fight.
    I’d end up somewhere rear flank of the gun man.
    So if I can even things back up fast enough by getting hits on all of them, maybe that would be realistic ending

  9. #39
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    I won't answer as to what to do if I don't have a round chambered. That's just silly. It just feels like putting on my pants without zipping up.

    So, I have my gun, ready to fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian@ITC View Post
    1. What is your primary goal in this situation?
    The part of me that is married and wants to go home tells me my primary goal is just that: make it home.

    The more defiant, angry at the situation part also wants the secondary goal of hurting the BGs. Insofar as Goal 2 doesn't conflict with Goal 1, I will attempt to accomplish both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian@ITC View Post
    2. What are you going to do and how are you going to accomplish it. That is, if you move, what direction are you going to move and with what footwork? Are you going to try and create distance? If using your gun, are you going to use a two handed shooting platform with your arms extended? Provide as many details as you can envision in this situation as to what you would do.
    If he's looking through my wallet, I think that implies his hands are full and his attention elsewhere. This is go time. He's close enough just get the gun out and start shooting as quick as possible. Draw and fire moving forward toward the BG in front quickly, to avoid getting stabbed (or shot) in the back. When he goes down, about the time you clear the trap, you wheel on the two behind and take as much cover as you can. If the BGs behind are gunless, they should be bugging out. If they are bearing arms, evaluate and fire as needed. Be glad you're packing an auto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian@ITC View Post
    3. You are without your gun because it is in your car.
    Hmmm... Good to think about ahead of time. Since I teach, this could happen in my school parking lot. Not sure what options there are other when he's looking through the wallet, throw your coffee in his eyes, kick dirt in his eyes, then just bum rush him, get his gun off axis, then use all the violence and rage you can possibly muster. Gouge his eyes, destroy his throat, obliterate his testicles. Quickly. Then, probably your best bet is to run like hell if you can. Otherwise you probably need his gun to defend against his buddies. This is way tougher than if you're armed. I think I heard it here, if you're fighting fair, your tactics suck.

    Mel
    Last edited by agentmel; February 9th, 2008 at 04:37 PM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    When they figure out what just happend, all they're hopefully going to see is their buddy lying on the deck with a pair of .45 caliber sized sucking chest wounds, and I doubt that any home boy mugger is going to give chase after that.
    As opposed to the kind of chest wounds that don't suck?!

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  11. #41
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    This sounds like an impossible situation to find yourself in. You are going to be hurt no matter what it would seem so I would, say a little prayer under my breath, hope his gun jams, slap leather pull and fire as fast as possible. I am not marshal Dillion but I don't see what else you can do in this situation. All you can hope for is you survive.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  12. #42
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    As the scenario is written, I get killed just like the rest of us would. I might be able to shoot a few of them before my bullet/knife punctured heart stops beating.
    The key to this scenario is how did I miss three bad guys waiting to ambush me? Your first line of defense must be your eyes. If you let three armed bad guys with intent to harm you get less than ten feet away you are going to die. End of story.
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    As the scenario is written, I get killed just like the rest of us would.
    Take real comfort in the fact that far, far more people are shot each year than are actually killed. The number of goofballs would indicate that they prefer intimidation to mutual engagement in violence. $60 (and not much more from the average parkinglot mugging) split 3 ways don't buy much booze or dope- they're doing it for thrill; they've never had a hard-target; or they're newbies. They may be dangerous, but if you've decided they need to die, you're pulling ahead of them.

  14. #44
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    "It's the curse of being the good people - we naturally tend to care as much about the fools as we do ourselves, while the fools care only about the fools." I liked this qoute so much I stole it from Chuck Brick.
    I'm flattered. I'm also amused; I didn't remember saying that. It was one of those times, I guess, that I was just "runnin' on."
    You stole nothing; consider it a gift.

    Stay safe,

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  15. #45
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    Well the only advantage we would have is that we're armed and fighting back. I definitely think I'm going to get shot in this scenario. Three really determined bad guys (pros) are going to kill you period. Three amateurs (crack heads) might fold up and run when it turns into a dog fight. Either way I go with Limatunes signature line and fight to the death. Hopefully I haven't bled out when EMS gets there. If I do die I'll be laying in a pile of empty cases.
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

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