This is a discussion on Looting within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi everyone, I know we have talked about this before but.........in light of recent events, lets take things from the survivors point of view. A ...

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Thread: Looting

  1. #1
    Member Array LPguy's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    Brockton, MA


    Hi everyone,

    I know we have talked about this before but.........in light of recent events, lets take things from the survivors point of view.

    A natural disaster has occurred. You need food, water, blankets for your family. You are under a state of martial law..........supplies are dwindeling.

    Looting is rampant, you find shelter. You're armed with the weapon of your choice, fully loaded but your spare ammo is lost.

    You emerge from your shelter to look for food, water, anything that will provide for your family......

    Devistaion is all around you. Personal property seems secondary to the damage you are wading through......

    Do you take what you need as you find it and to hell with the rest?

    Personally, I've seen firemen take a case of gatoraide from a burning store and help themselves without a thought of theft. What do you do?

    What say you?


  2. #2
    Lead Moderator Array rocky's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    survival is survival. If I need ammo, food ect. gotta do it to survive. I would note the business and hopefully be able to pay for what I took. That said, I doubt I would be low on much unless caught on vacation.

  3. #3
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    One Thing I Do Remember

    I remember this from food transport trucks that get turned over with contents/boxes etc. spilled out on the highway due to some sort of accident (or whatever) that it can't be sold to consumers after that.
    Somebody will need to say for sure though.
    I also think that any food that has been exposed to flood water & possible sewage & that would include canned goods (due to the paper label) cannot by law be restocked onto store shelves.
    So I'm pretty sure that the food (even the stuff sealed in plastic) would just go to waste anyway - if it was not taken & eaten.
    Anybody know for sure?
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #4
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    South West PA
    Mike - I see two sides to this.

    First - the part I condemn - is the looting that makes no sense and is blatantly criminal - dipsticks leaving stores with value goods like TV's and video's - like yeah, they have power and can barter them for drugs! Same folks will think nothing either of car-jackings etc. These are the latent criminals who are dross in the barrel. They would as soon bury a machete in your head as wink.

    Second - is the survival deal and yes - in extremis folks will seek water, food and clothing. The manner however in which they gain these is significant. If they sneak something from a trashed and or abandoned store then - OK - necessity wins. Do what yer gotta do deal.

    If however they decide to get their ''rations'' thru attack and even killing of others then all bets are off - I would cap 'em.

    I know when things get desperate, many ''civilized'' approaches go out the window but I'd like to think that we here still would have scruples. We may loot and plunder the inanimate for essentials just to survive and keep our families from perishing but - the thought of robbery, attack etc on others who were innocents - no - I think we would rise above that.

    For most part I consider we would have way better survival instincts and skills for starters - and in fact quite possibly would take out the scum element with little remorse. The fittest survive but not at ''any cost''. We have duties not only to selves but other stoo - as long as they are stand-up folks.

    The vermin I am afraid will from my POV - get the only reward they deserve - the ever after!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #5
    1952 - 2006
    Array acparmed's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Chris on this issue.

    To take what you need to survive by victimizing another poor soul is cause for Cor-Bon in the cranium. Predators are predators and should be dealt with acoordingly.

    However, as I used to so succinctly put it while I was in Special Forces, 'foraging for material', is an entirely different matter. If you aquire something through covert means, while in an operational state, and not force your will on another, then take what you need. (the Army never understood my approach to this, but hey we never got caught).
    However, you can't take something that some other poor soul trying to survive needs, even if he would never know who took it.

    The concept is crystal clear to me.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

    "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
    ~George Patton


  6. #6
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    SW Missouri
    My thinking is pretty much in line with y'alls on this one. If it's food, water, medical-supplies--stuff that's necessary for survival; Do what you gotta do. Like someone else said, it's going to be wasted if someone doesn't use it.

    On the other hand, taking food and water from another by force, or the looting of "non-essentials" (tv's, Nike's, or DVD's) is not okay. Those that would take the opportunity afforded to them by disaster and/or unrest to steal from others, or worse to rape or murder, are nothing but sub-human filth and should be dealt with accordingly and swiftly (i.e. the aforementioned "cor-bon to the cranium").
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  7. #7
    Lead Moderator Array rstickle's Avatar
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    Laurel, MD
    I'd been thinking about this gor a couple days. And I think going into places and taking food and water (ammo?) is sort of permissable. Some of the pictures on TV where people are taking whole racks of clothing, dozens of pairs of sneakers, and TVs and stereos is flat out looting, not survival.

    Speaking of the situation in NO, I heard on the radio this morning that the Govenor of Louisana said she was glad to see the her National Guard troop that had just come back from Iraq go into the city because they "know how to shoot to kill". Thought that was real interesting!

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  8. #8
    DC Founder
    Array Bumper's Avatar
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    May 2004
    Like everyone else, takeing items you need to survive, in this type of situation, is forgiveable, IMHO. I honestly think that in this type of disaster that the stores would be glad that you emptied the store out of all food items. I don't believe it is okay for you to loot other items or take store fixtures or trash the place and add to the owner's expense of restoring the place. Ammo? I dunno, I guess with the current state of affairs there in New Orleans I could justify that to myself, but can't think of much else, other than maybe medical supplies (which would also probably all be thrown out by the owner) that would be justified. I also think that I would make note of what I took and the store I took it from and, at some point, come back and "fess up" and repay the owner for helping me to survive....
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
    Items for survival are just that...for SURVIVAL. However, I do not think I would need a big screen TV in a city that will be without electricity for the next 6 months.
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

    Previously known as "cjm5874"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
    survival isn't looting

    Rampant marauding should only be met with deadly force.
    Shooters' Legacy

    Special sections for S&W and Ruger

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    I'm with Bumper!

    I would make restitution for survival goods as soon as things got stable again and the store was operational.

  12. #12
    Member Array LPguy's Avatar
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    Brockton, MA
    So I'm pretty sure that the food (even the stuff sealed in plastic) would just go to waste anyway - if it was not taken & eaten.
    Anybody know for sure?
    Being a Board of Health Inspector I can answer this question. Anything contaminated of believed to be gets tossed. Period!

    You are all thinking along the same lines I was. Take what you need to survive. But do you need Cd'd Tv's and the like to get by?....certainly not! I think opportunistis looters should be dealt with severely.

    Chris summarized it best I think

    the part I condemn - is the looting that makes no sense and is blatantly criminal
    Great responses!


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