Possible hero or scapegoat?

This is a discussion on Possible hero or scapegoat? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is something that has been on my mind...dont know if it has been discussed or not...but here goes. Lets say you are a student ...

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Thread: Possible hero or scapegoat?

  1. #1
    Member Array T-Rex's Avatar
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    Possible hero or scapegoat?

    Here is something that has been on my mind...dont know if it has been discussed or not...but here goes.

    Lets say you are a student at a college or university. You have a CPL and you carry "everywhere" you go. You are a model citizen, dont drink, dont smoke, dont speed in your car (or dont get caught). You are in class and you hear gunshots. A BG kicks in the door of the classroom or lecture hall that you are in. He starts yelling and starts firing into the classroom and hitting students.

    You are carrying. You draw, you fire, and kill the BG with a couple of well placed shots. After you check to see if he is dead, you call 911 and inform them of what happened. You let them know that you returned fire and killed the guy.

    Even though you have a CPL and was on campus...a gun free zone, killed a guy that was shooting students, and called 911 to let them know what happened and who you are and other information that is valuable. What can you expect to happen? Murder charges?

    I guess my question is....If you are carrying in a place that you are not to carry and neutralize a BG that has shot other people, can you expect to have the book thrown at you....even though you are dayum near a hero?

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Self-defense doesn't change just because you're in a gun free zone.

    Would you face charges for carrying in a gun free zone? Absolutely.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  4. #3
    Member Array T-Rex's Avatar
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    I just saw another thread asking something similiar to this....sorry for the "repost"

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    You would also face expulsion from school.

    The "Bubbleheaded Administrators" would prattle on and on in a news clip about how the safety of all the students is paramount, yada, yada, yada.

    Good luck getting in to another school. Remember, when you go to transfer you would most likely not be able to get your records from the school that you were expelled from. Also, you most likely would be barred from the campus. So, no going to the Student Records Office to request your transcripts.

    Or, you could go to school in Utah, where concealed carry on campus is legal.

    Biker

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    I agree you will probably face charges but unless a jury is packed with sheep no prosecutor will ever get a conviction.

  7. #6
    Member Array T-Rex's Avatar
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    I was actually arrested in 1994 for possession of a handgun on campus. It was secured in my vehicle and I had a CCW permit. I wasnt put on probation nor expelled, but it was also in GA....but things probably have changed by now...

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    Member Array rmarcustrucker's Avatar
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    In the movies, since this is all hypothetical, you'd be a hero and everyone would thank you for using common sense, or like I've heard in some cases " the good guys ran out to their truck's and got there firearms (which where legal to store in their vehicles) and ran back into the classroom to confront the BG".
    But then you hear about the ninnies that are always upset that their beloved bad guy got shot, killed.
    I deal with statistics and the statistics are still better at getting busted wanting to do the right thing then having your school shot up.
    I'm also a big believer in deep concealment.
    I don't agree with some forms of carry others might consider "concealed".
    It's more "Cover" and thats not the same as concealed. If your legal and use common sense and do get discovered by a frightened citizen, the worst you might get is a "brandishing" charge, which you could fight and win against. If your hypothetically, in a "no gun zone" you would have no legal defense.
    Getting into politics is the way to go. Fight from within. Good hypothetical question, though.

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    Ultimately a decision to carry or not carry anywhere there are not metal detectors is an individual choice. Consequences for carrying include getting caught, loosing job, getting expelled, etc.. But of equal consideration are consequences for not carrying including getting killed, family loosing a the bread-winner, giving up a right to self-defense, etc.

    As a full-time staffer and part-time student, I spend 9-10 hours a day 5 days a week in a Gun-Free Zone in both the office and classroom. I feel your frustration. I have the right to protect myself and that is being denied me by those who fear law-abiding citizens’ more than suicidal gun-toting lunatics.

    Now I know I could chose to work only in gun-friendly jobs, etc. But IMO that is a bit of a defeatist attitude. Remember who we are dealing with. “They” won’t stop until everywhere is a Gun-Free Zone. So I choose to stay and engage the fight in the battle zone itself.

    So, what can we do? I agree with rmarcustrucker on this. Get involved. On any level you can. The anti-rights crowd love activism and politics. I know many of us do not, including me . But it’s easy if you are doing something you love and it does not have to be carrying a picket sign or the like. Get involved with things that are easy for most of us like shooting with others. Stay informed together and call elected officials to task together. There is strength in numbers. Staying active on this blog is a huge step in the right direction . And of course, Vote. Locally, state-wide and federally.
    The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    I think it depends on where you live. Some states are more forgiving than others in matters like this.

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    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    depends on the state.
    in michigan i know if u are carrying a place your not suppose to than the stand your ground and castle doctrine laws dont apply.
    but if you were justified to shoot even if those laws were not in place then the only thing you would be charged for is carrying in a no carry zone...
    or rather, thats all you SHOULD get charged with.
    but who knows

    my opinion of it is, if that were to happen, i would be glad i had my gun, whether or not i got charged for murder. prison is better than death, despite what some may say.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Cities commonly have ordinances against discharging firearms within their boundaries. I don't think they usually charge you if you do this while using a firearm in self-defense. Isn't this the same? I don't know about the schools...

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    It depends.

    It depends on the Judge, Prosecutor, the situation, how much you said to the police, the police who responded...

    This is a WAY too open question for a cut and dry answer.

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    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    If not attending school in Utah but someplace else, you would more than likely at least get kicked out of school. Other than that, don't expect any awards or atta boys. Whether you were charged with a crime would depend on the circumstances and follow-up investigations by law enforcement. Either way, things just wouldn't be good except for the fact that you did survive and that is always a good thing.
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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    Self-defense doesn't change just because you're in a gun free zone.

    Would you face charges for carrying in a gun free zone? Absolutely.
    Right. Remember the Bernard Goetz in a New York subway quite a few years ago. He was acquitted of murder, but convicted of illegal carrying.

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    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    I'd hand my study mate back his back up piece and let him fill out the paper work

    my last two study/desk mates have been off duty LEOs - had one sit in class with his duty belt on and none of the

    even noticed

    he told me if SHTF I am welcome to his back-up as he can only effectively cover one of the doors...

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