How would you go about this?

This is a discussion on How would you go about this? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; wow you all are so knowledgable about this stuff its crazy! i just want them to leave us alone and no one get hurt(even the ...

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  1. #91
    Member Array derekxec's Avatar
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    wow you all are so knowledgable about this stuff its crazy!

    i just want them to leave us alone and no one get hurt(even the kids). i dont want to worry anymore about coming home one day and seeing someone hurt or dead

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  3. #92
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekxec View Post
    wow you all are so knowledgable about this stuff its crazy!
    Take everything said here with a grain of salt...even everything I say.

    "Well, at Defensivecarry.com they said..." will probably not be a very convincing defense.

    If anything, use what is posted here and the links posted here as a guideline in your search to your local laws and ordinances.

    The other reason I mention this is because while we will try to be as accurate as possible, and while you may try to present the story as fairly and accurately as possible, it is impossible for us to know the entire situation. And impossible for us to know what evidence an investigator might turn up.

    Good luck and I hope some of our advice here will allow you to more easily put this situation behind you.

    And the best advice given so far is to move when funds are available. It sounds like you aren't in the best of neighborhoods.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  4. #93
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    You may be right which is why I also said order of protection / no contact order or whatever the appropriate term is for his jurisdiction. I am sure his fellow Floridians can provide the correct variant of a restraining order he & his room mates need to obtain. There are no contact orders or orders of protection for non domestic relationships. The court house can guide him to the proper request. I doubt the tact with grandpa will work, he is only accountable for his own conduct. Not what his grand kids do.
    Long, I suggested the talk with grandpa because he might be able to stop it, especially if he is told that the OP is going for court order of protection, no contact, whatever is applicable. Again, basing this on my experience here in NJ, but when a person has an order of protection entered against them, all weapons in the house of the defendant are taken. Maybe a member from FL can explain FL's procedure.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  5. #94
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekxec View Post
    the cop telling me we would all be going to jail the camera was on the other side of the house pointing over and you can really hear what the cop is saying...he even asked me if i had audio on it because if i did i would be violating the law by taping a cop with audio??????? ive never heard of that before not being able to video a police officer with audio(he said without audio is fine)
    I suspect it's not so much a matter of audiorecording a POLICE OFFICER as it is one of audiorecording ANYONE in a situation where they have no reason to believe they COULD be recorded.

    Generally speaking, "eavesdropping" laws prohibit the recording of a conversation in which the person doing the recording is not present. (and, in some cases, even not VISIBLY present)

    It all goes back to "reasonable expectation of privacy".

    If you're talking to your buddy, and there's someone else standing 5 feet away, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy in your conversation. Therefore, if that person is recording you, it's not an INVASION of your privacy.

    On the other hand, if you're on your front porch talking to your buddy, and your neighbor next door has a videocamera with a microphone mounted on the outside of his house, and records (or even monitors) your conversation while he's NOT standing within earshot of you, that IS an invasion of your privacy, because you DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the CONVERSATION. The video portion is an entirely different matter, because you have no reasonable expectation of privacy against being SEEN when you're out in public, and if you can be SEEN, you can be photographed or videotaped.

    So, if your cameras are surveillance cameras mounted to the house and connected to a VCR, just don't plug the audio cables from the outside cameras into the VCR......video only.

    Or, along with your No Trespassing signs, you might also put up signs notifying people that the property is under video AND AUDIO surveillance, thus INFORMING them that they have NO reasonable expectation of privacy on your property, even if they don't see you.

    Skimming through this post, I can't help but think that moving is the best plan. Sad, but true.

    Failing that, or for future reference in your new abode, think LAYERS of defense. Put as many obstacles as possible in between you and those who might harm you (or your property). Obstacles come in many forms, including psychological, legal and physical.

    A fence with No Trespassing signs on it covers all three bases. Video surveillance covers all but the physical. Sturdy doors and locks are not merely physical obstacles, but also psychological and legal ones. Variation of your routine can be both a psychological and a physical obstacle. If you don't appear where they EXPECT you to appear, they can't execute a pre-planned attack upon you, at least not according to their plan. And if you do this enough to become "predictably unpredictable", they'll probably be psyched out of even TRYING.

    As for your troubles with the local constabulary, everybody has a boss. Find out who the bosses are, and talk to THEM.

    Also, you don't have to be a grizzly bear. I know that most people would think that to be the ideal state of affairs, because no other critter DARES to attack a grizzly bear. They'd surely lose, so they don't even try.

    It's usually enough to be a porcupine. While a porcupine certainly CAN be killed and eaten by just about any predator, predators tend to avoid them, simply because it's an EXPENSIVE meal.

  6. #95
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerneyG View Post
    bluelineman, all great information, but the OP does not have a concealed weapons permit, therefore any force that he is forced to use, will occur on his own property.
    I know. I was providing that for when he gets it. I wanted to show the law, not just internet opinion.

    SgtMac, good info & advice.

  7. #96
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    If you can't move go with RamRod's solution...good luck
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  8. #97
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekxec View Post
    wow you all are so knowledgable about this stuff its crazy!
    i just want them to leave us alone and no one get hurt(even the kids). i dont want to worry anymore about coming home one day and seeing someone hurt or dead
    You have gotten some good input. You know what to do, the ball is in your court. IMO if you have not bothered to go to the court house and get the no contact / orders of protection your concerns are exaggerated at best. At worst you are personally responsible for any one who gets hurt because you have been given the information on how to make the bull stop and have chosen not to do anything. At this point if someone gets hurt whose fault is it really? That may sound harsh but it is hard to have any sympathy for anyone who knows the train is coming and keeps walking on the railroad track. If you you have told the truth here it is way past time for you to act in a responsible manner.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  9. #98
    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    This in NOT going to end...you sound (according to your info) like you are dealing with some dirtbags...
    The video camera could be a real plus...but if I were in your situation, I'd be looking for a new place to live...quickly!

    I would make a paper trail for everything that has already happened and start writing letters...

    Stay armed...get your CCW, if you don't have one...stay safe!
    Best advice I've read here.

  10. #99
    Ex Member Array USA Pugilist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    I suspect it's not so much a matter of audiorecording a POLICE OFFICER as it is one of audiorecording ANYONE in a situation where they have no reason to believe they COULD be recorded.

    Generally speaking, "eavesdropping" laws prohibit the recording of a conversation in which the person doing the recording is not present. (and, in some cases, even not VISIBLY present)

    It all goes back to "reasonable expectation of privacy".

    If you're talking to your buddy, and there's someone else standing 5 feet away, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy in your conversation. Therefore, if that person is recording you, it's not an INVASION of your privacy.

    On the other hand, if you're on your front porch talking to your buddy, and your neighbor next door has a videocamera with a microphone mounted on the outside of his house, and records (or even monitors) your conversation while he's NOT standing within earshot of you, that IS an invasion of your privacy, because you DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the CONVERSATION. The video portion is an entirely different matter, because you have no reasonable expectation of privacy against being SEEN when you're out in public, and if you can be SEEN, you can be photographed or videotaped.

    So, if your cameras are surveillance cameras mounted to the house and connected to a VCR, just don't plug the audio cables from the outside cameras into the VCR......video only.

    Or, along with your No Trespassing signs, you might also put up signs notifying people that the property is under video AND AUDIO surveillance, thus INFORMING them that they have NO reasonable expectation of privacy on your property, even if they don't see you.

    Skimming through this post, I can't help but think that moving is the best plan. Sad, but true.

    Failing that, or for future reference in your new abode, think LAYERS of defense. Put as many obstacles as possible in between you and those who might harm you (or your property). Obstacles come in many forms, including psychological, legal and physical.

    A fence with No Trespassing signs on it covers all three bases. Video surveillance covers all but the physical. Sturdy doors and locks are not merely physical obstacles, but also psychological and legal ones. Variation of your routine can be both a psychological and a physical obstacle. If you don't appear where they EXPECT you to appear, they can't execute a pre-planned attack upon you, at least not according to their plan. And if you do this enough to become "predictably unpredictable", they'll probably be psyched out of even TRYING.

    As for your troubles with the local constabulary, everybody has a boss. Find out who the bosses are, and talk to THEM.

    Also, you don't have to be a grizzly bear. I know that most people would think that to be the ideal state of affairs, because no other critter DARES to attack a grizzly bear. They'd surely lose, so they don't even try.

    It's usually enough to be a porcupine. While a porcupine certainly CAN be killed and eaten by just about any predator, predators tend to avoid them, simply because it's an EXPENSIVE meal.
    YOU are Wrong.

    If I want to set up recording devices all over the out side of my house cause I want a Porfolio of nature sounds then no one, NOt even a cop, is going to Infringe in my 1st Amendment Right. If I happen to catch other voices well hey its a free country.
    As a photojournalist, your words sounds like you dont want us to do our jobs. The way Derk describes, and i know it's his POV, there is no comprehensible way you can find any valor in what the cop said to him. I'ts UnAmerican at Best.

    I love how officers have that code.

    I

  11. #100
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USA Pugilist View Post
    YOU are Wrong.

    If I want to set up recording devices all over the out side of my house cause I want a Porfolio of nature sounds then no one, NOt even a cop, is going to Infringe in my 1st Amendment Right. If I happen to catch other voices well hey its a free country.
    As a photojournalist, your words sounds like you dont want us to do our jobs. The way Derk describes, and i know it's his POV, there is no comprehensible way you can find any valor in what the cop said to him. I'ts UnAmerican at Best.

    I love how officers have that code.

    I
    You are wrong sir. It's called illegal wiretapping. Here's some light reading with a source to read the whole article.

    Of the 50 states, 38, as well as the District of Columbia, allow you to record a conversation to which you are a party without informing the other parties you are doing so. Federal wiretap statutes also permit one-party-consent recording of telephone conversations in most circumstances. Twelve states forbid the recording of private conversations without the consent of all parties. Those states are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

    Handbook: Surreptitious recording

  12. #101
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Have you called your city's anti-blight office and complained about the condition of their house?

    Maybe you aught to be getting to know your town's municipal code enforcement people, health code people, zoning enforcement officers and the town clerks.

    I'm sure their house is in violation of many health codes, zoning laws and blight ordinances.

    Fines for these violations can be high and accrue daily...and if not paid can lead to foreclosure.

  13. #102
    Ex Member Array USA Pugilist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluelineman View Post
    You are wrong sir. It's called illegal wiretapping. Here's some light reading with a source to read the whole article.

    Of the 50 states, 38, as well as the District of Columbia, allow you to record a conversation to which you are a party without informing the other parties you are doing so. Federal wiretap statutes also permit one-party-consent recording of telephone conversations in most circumstances. Twelve states forbid the recording of private conversations without the consent of all parties. Those states are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.
    read what i said carefully. It is not breaking the law. The intent is not there. It at best, will be dissmissed in court but I am aloud to record the outside enviroment if i wish.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; March 2nd, 2008 at 01:09 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags

  14. #103
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USA Pugilist View Post
    As a photojournalist, your words sounds like you dont want us to do our jobs.
    WHICH words are you referring to?

    I very clearly stated that if you can be SEEN, you can be photographed/videotaped, and that if you can be HEARD, your voice can be recorded.

    The only way that anything I wrote could be viewed as hampering ANY journalist from doing their job is if the journalist views it as his/her right to photograph/video/record someone by planting a recording device in a place they do not themselves physically occupy, and, in the case of visual media, not in a LINE OF SIGHT in which a person could legally be - like, for instance, INSIDE a structure belonging to someone else.

    Do you just have a blind hatred of law enforcement? If so, it might be clouding your judgment.

  15. #104
    Member Array derekxec's Avatar
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    no idea what happened but this is day 3 that they havent bothered us. maybe they are done? hopefully

  16. #105
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekxec View Post
    no idea what happened but this is day 3 that they havent bothered us. maybe they are done? hopefully
    I'm glad to hear they are leaving you alone, maybe they read defensivecarry.com...

    I hope you will still follow up on the paper trail, just in case.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

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