What would you overlook?

[tns0038]

#1&2 call 911 and hang around to watch, and be a good witness.

$3: I would call my neighbor. If no answer next door, I’d call 911 go outside, and wait for intruder to come out, and or the LEO’s I’d just called to arrive.

As CooperKnight said NEVER get involved in a domestic dispute, it has been known to comeback and make Sir Galahad look like the BG aggressor.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[HowardCohodas]

As for your scenarios... many people, often myself included, do not know how they would respond in real life when reading a situation typed out on screen. I, like all others, have some cut and dried "yes, get involved" and "no, wouldn't touch it" situations in my head. Those you have typed, for me, I'm not sure. I wouldn't "overlook" any of the occurrences, but I also may not step into the middle of them.

I'd like to think I'd be a "stand-up" guy, but I don't know what I would do in real life. I offer this real life experience to illustrate my doubts.

While young and full of certainty I railed against the people in news reports who ran from a hit and run accident leaving someone hurt or dying. Then, while in college I was driving home from a night class on a reasonable well lit four lane suburban street, probably at or slightly above the speed limit. A rider on a bicycle shot out from a side street as I was almost upon him. Other traffic prevented me from swerving. The sound I heard when I hit the bike is hard to describe, but with the multiple bangs I thought I had hit the bike and run over the rider.

I stopped the car and for several seconds fought the panic telling me to drive away and escape this horrible situation. Somehow I got out of the car and walked back to see if I could help the rider. To my surprise, he was standing up but his hand was bleeding profusely from a deep gash. I told him to get in my car and I would take him to the hospital, but he begged me to take him home first, as he lived quite close. As he entered his home he said, "Mom, Dad, I messed up." I went to the hospital with them to make sure he would be all right. It turns out that his hand had been spiked in football practice earlier in the day and the bleeding was mostly from the stitches coming out.

The police interviewed me away from the boy and his family. After the interview he told me that my story was what the boy had said. The next day there was a small item in the paper noting the accident. The last line said, "The driver was not held." I carried that article with me in my wallet for years.

Bottom line... I don't know what I would do today in the same circumstance. I'd like to think it would be the same. But the panic I felt was overwhelming.

[cdwolf]

Here's my response off duty:

1) Call 911, other than that don't get involved.

2) Same as #1

3) Same as #1 and #2

4) Sheep are for eating, my guns are to protect me and mine.

I would get the idea of a "Citizen's Arrest" out of my head unless you like being sued for Wrongful Imprisonment. Everyone is responsible for their own safety. If someone doesn't take steps to ensure their own safety, so be it. They get what they get.

I know that sounds cold, callous and cruel, but the world is that way.

Biker

I take it off by your off duty comment your a cop??
Don't you swear an oath to protect?
So your only a cop when your clocked in?
Maybe I just misunderstood!!
cold,callous and cruel yes the world is, Im talking about my community and neighbors.
If it was 10 on 1 I could not sleep at night knowing I just watched a bunch of thugs beat down some guy and his girl.
That's the cool thing about our country to each his own!!!
Me im adding to the problem and doing what I can to help!
I have been in and seen enough fights to know, A nike can kill you.
If I was a cop and pulled up and you said " yea I seen them hit him and then they kicked him ?times and run off" I would remember your plates.
Our leo's make 30k a year to protect everybody and put there life on the line everyday!!
If I pass by and you look like you need help, I apoligize if I get in the way by trying.
There will be a time when you or your family will need a John Q public one day. I wonder will he just watch?

[cdwolf]

nah, I will live... I have a great attorney, actually several of them...

I cannot however "afford therapy" chances are you cannot either, especially after idiots like "Cho" did their damage, and the Congress did their thing, I am a veteran and any "PTSD" will possibly negatively impact my right to firearms ownership...

my SA has been on high since 1979 - something to do with an acquaintances' body being delivered to an Embassy in three burlap sacks... and he wasn't involved nearly as deep as I was...

or maybe it was all of those guys who bailed out of the backs of three trucks at "post 13" on a "quiet road to nowhere" out in the jungles of Central America, I stood my ground then, and stand it today...

(I lost count at 20 BGs armed with AKs - I had a Sailor in dress whites, two Marines and me... Navy had an M-16, I put one Marine on a "Pig" and the senior Marine and I both had .45s...)

the OP asked "What would you do?" I answered - you may not like my answer, it may not work for you - doesn't have to.

It is my answer, I decided a long time ago what my response would be - it has and does serve me well... never said what or how I would intervene beyond initial response of calling 911, taking pictures and distracting the aggressor of the moment- anything beyond that moment depends a lot upon their response to my opener...

I don't run around looking for trouble, but I don't generally turn tail and run when I see it happening either... If the woman in situation one was my wife, daughter or mother - would I want someone to help, or just stand around and watch?

I think some folks have given up on any semblance of showing humanity to another, I have been a soldier, firefighter, paramedic, business owner, husband, father, son etc...

I still hold the door for ladies - maybe I'm just old fashioned

[BikerRN]

For brevity I have inserted my answers to your questions at the end of each question.

I take it off by your off duty comment your a cop?? No, Federal LEO
Don't you swear an oath to protect? No,to uphold and defend the Constitution
So your only a cop when your clocked in? That's right. My Agency won't "cover me" off duty, therefore I owe them or you nothing when I'm not clocked in.
Maybe I just misunderstood!! I doubt it
cold,callous and cruel yes the world is, Im talking about my community and neighbors. Your neighbors are just as cold, callous and cruel, Society has just masked their true nature.
If it was 10 on 1 I could not sleep at night knowing I just watched a bunch of thugs beat down some guy and his girl. Guy and girl should've been better prepared Everyone is responsible for their own safety. If you didn't think it was important to prepare for your own safety why should I assume that burden for you?.
That's the cool thing about our country to each his own!!!
Me im adding to the problem and doing what I can to help! Just make sure you don't make the situation worse by "jumping in". Chances are you will if you bring your gun out.
I have been in and seen enough fights to know, A nike can kill you.
If I was a cop and pulled up and you said " yea I seen them hit him and then they kicked him ?times and run off" I would remember your plates. Remember away, I'll see you in court.
Our leo's make 30k a year to protect everybody and put there life on the line everyday!! Your LEO's have no duty or obligation to protect any one individual, only society as a whole.
If I pass by and you look like you need help, I apoligize if I get in the way by trying. Stay out of it. You don't know who all the players are and will only make things worse. If I want your help, I'll ask for it. Rest assurred, I won't.
There will be a time when you or your family will need a John Q public one day. I wonder will he just watch?

John Q Public has watched and called 911. I won't ask for more than that.

[BikerRN]

Some of you may want to read this article.

Commentary by Evan Marshall

Biker

[MitchellCT]

I read that essay. In fact I have it on my computer.

I still don't see how jumping into a situation in which I don't know all the players and what lead up to the action is the best possible answer.

You seem to be taking the view that all these situations are clear and simple, right or wrong situations.

In real life they aren't.

The situations:

1. You pull up at the grocery store on your way home(got to get milk and eggs) You look over and see a 6' tall man punching a woman. The driver side door is open and she is halfway on the ground, you have seen at least two hits real fast. What would you do?

2. You and your other just left the movies on your way to your car you see a young couple being pushed around by 5 for real thugs. There 10 cars past yours,you get your car unlocked, and then you see one of them hit the guy?

3. You look over at you neighbors house, and you think you saw a man just push in the back door? your not sure, you look and his or his son's truck's are not there but the wife's is?

I see:

1 - A possible instance of domestic violence;

2 - An argument/assault/mugging//drug deal gone sour, but I'm not sure of the nature of the incident, who is involved or if the parties are armed;

3 - A situation in which (to quote the scenario) " and you think you saw a man just push in the back door? your not sure" - meaning I'm not sure.


In real life, the domestic violence victim doesn't thank you as you give the boyfriend/thug 'what for'...she usually tries to slips a knife into your ribs as she screams "Don't mess with my man..."

She won't be a witness on your side. Her statement to the police will involve how you attacked her man out of nowhere and you had no reason to hit him, and her bloody lip was given to her by YOU!

I will NOT be in that situation.

Unless I know what is going on and who is involved, I'm waiting for more info.

Now, I can probably figure out things if I see several guys holding a woman, a knife to her throat and torn clothing...I mean, I'm not dumb and I'm not heartless enough to sip my coffee as I call 911 to be a good witness...but none of the situations given were that clearcut.

If I don't know what is going on I gather more intel.

If you want to act without proper information, go ahead.

When the situation turns out to be something VERY different from your off the cuff assessment and you end up having to explain why you inserted yourself into a situation without any idea of what you were doing (except being a hero) I hope you can deal with the fallout.

You seem to be taking the line of thought that anything but immediate action in defense of a lady is the only way to act.

OK...but how do you know the women in these scenarios are "ladies"?

Their are plenty of females out their who are manipulative to set up their current man to have a fight or worse with a former man (or a prospective man) just for fun. They aren't ladies.

But...if you want to intervene on their behalf...be my guest.

[BikerRN]

I read that essay. In fact I have it on my computer.

I still don't see how jumping into a situation in which I don't know all the players and what lead up to the action is the best possible answer.

You seem to be taking the view that all these situations are clear and simple, right or wrong situations.

In real life they aren't.

The situations:




I see:

1 - A possible instance of domestic violence;

2 - An argument/assault/mugging//drug deal gone sour, but I'm not sure of the nature of the incident, who is involved or if the parties are armed;

3 - A situation in which (to quote the scenario) " and you think you saw a man just push in the back door? your not sure" - meaning I'm not sure.


In real life, the domestic violence victim doesn't thank you as you give the boyfriend/thug 'what for'...she usually tries to slips a knife into your ribs as she screams "Don't mess with my man..."

She won't be a witness on your side. Her statement to the police will involve how you attacked her man out of nowhere and you had no reason to hit him, and her bloody lip was given to her by YOU!

I will NOT be in that situation.

Unless I know what is going on and who is involved, I'm waiting for more info.

Now, I can probably figure out things if I see several guys holding a woman, a knife to her throat and torn clothing...I mean, I'm not dumb and I'm not heartless enough to sip my coffee as I call 911 to be a good witness...but none of the situations given were that clearcut.

If I don't know what is going on I gather more intel.

If you want to act without proper information, go ahead.

When the situation turns out to be something VERY different from your off the cuff assessment and you end up having to explain why you inserted yourself into a situation without any idea of what you were doing (except being a hero) I hope you can deal with the fallout.

You seem to be taking the line of thought that anything but immediate action in defense of a lady is the only way to act.

OK...but how do you know the women in these scenarios are "ladies"?

Their are plenty of females out their who are manipulative to set up their current man to have a fight or worse with a former man (or a prospective man) just for fun. They aren't ladies.

But...if you want to intervene on their behalf...be my guest.

No, I'm not taking a "simple view" as you state, but rather I have thought long and hard about this.

No, outside of calling 911 and being a good witness I most likely won't do anything to save you because you are not part of my family nor known to me. I will, have and do intervene, but like Evan says, "On my terms". I have already decided, I'm not using my gun to save an unknown.

In the forums sometimes it's hard to get certain points across and my opinion or stance on a subject may seem "hardline". That is because there are a lot of uninformed not knowledgeable people out there that think "jumping in to save the day" is the thing to do.

They find out the hard way that most often it was the wrong thing to do. Life is hard, and the lesson life teaches can be very bitter. I am hoping to give someone reading these threads pause so that they fully consider their actions.

Results count, good intentions don't mean squat. If you misread a situation and end up doing the wrong thing be prepared for more grief than you ever thought possible. Heck, do the right thing and you will still get just as much grief.

I have never said I wouldn't call 911 or be a good witness. I will not assume reponsibilty for your safety when you should've done that in the first place.

Remember, just because you have a Hammer doesn't make every problem a nail.

Biker

[MitchellCT]

No, I'm not taking a "simple view" as you state, but rather I have thought long and hard about this.

No, outside of calling 911 and being a good witness I most likely won't do anything to save you because you are not part of my family nor known to me. I will, have and do intervene, but like Evan says, "On my terms". I have already decided, I'm not using my gun to save an unknown.

In the forums sometimes it's hard to get certain points across and my opinion or stance on a subject may seem "hardline". That is because there are a lot of uninformed not knowledgeable people out there that think "jumping in to save the day" is the thing to do.

They find out the hard way that most often it was the wrong thing to do. Life is hard, and the lesson life teaches can be very bitter. I am hoping to give someone reading these threads pause so that they fully consider their actions.

Results count, good intentions don't mean squat. If you misread a situation and end up doing the wrong thing be prepared for more grief than you ever thought possible. Heck, do the right thing and you will still get just as much grief.

I have never said I wouldn't call 911 or be a good witness. I will not assume reponsibilty for your safety when you should've done that in the first place.

Remember, just because you have a Hammer doesn't make every problem a nail.

Biker

I was referring to cdwolf.

I am in agreement with just about everything you have been saying. I didn't think anything I posted seemed to indicate otherwise...

[BikerRN]

Forgive my reading comprehension when I'm tired and have a lot on my mind.

Biker

[MR D]

yep there are definitely differences in point of view on this forum

I believe that BikerRn has already stated that a lot of the differences are the result of our experiences - and I have to agree

it is interesting though that so many assume that the parking lot incident is domestic in nature... possible attempted car jacking, rape, kidnapping or domestic - doesn't matter - each of us will respond in our own way...

the only situation that I have mentioned getting a gun involved with is the third, anyone care to guess why?

[USA Pugilist]

These scenerios are simple to me. Because I live in Florida I have the right to protect myself.

We all know that if you shoot down a perp and the women is a God-Lovin BibleBelt individual that preaches Thou shall not kill, you are SCREWED. But, if you draw the attention away from the women and towards you, well now your life may be in danger. If he shows you a weapon or comes towards you very fast then the only option is 6 in the CenterSpace. You now protected your life not hers.

Same for all scenerios.

I would like my shepard to be Grand.

[Sticks]

When you really do something right, people will think that you did nothing at all.

I stand by my signature.