Real scenario, what would have you done?

[retsupt99]

I'm in my sixth decade...I'm not running...

After the "...kick his rear"...notice and two big guys running at me, my left hand goes up, my voice shouts "Please, please leave me alone...(well, something like that...), and my right hand assumes it position on my weapon...
Any further advance by said big fellows will be immediately met with violence...the .45 kind...period.
Anywhere within the 21' range will be enough to begin the scenario to 'stop the threat'...
Then I call 911...

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[jackdog]

Turn to split the difference between the two of them, draw pistol, low ready...

"BACK OFF!!!!!"

If no suitable response, aim COM at the closest threat, repeat command.

If he keeps coming, shoot him. Same for the other one.

There are two of them, they're both bigger than you, and grown men getting into fistfights leads to all sorts of "serious bodily injury" or death these days.

Disparity of force.

This would be a correct action with good tactis, I whole hardly agree.

[micpl]

Given their drunken state and low-crotch pants I would expect that they weren't capable of moving very fast and would probably have tried to run away. But I am young and fit and can outrun most people.

If I did not have confidence in my ability to outrun them I would draw, aim COM on the closest one and command loudly and repeatedly "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT." At that point, if they continued toward me I would feel compelled to shoot.

I guess I agree with those who point out that turning your back to them is risky, but I think it could be less risky than standing your ground. Also, if they are just looking for someone to bully they probably aren't motivated enough to pursue me very far.

Also, if they feel that they've humiliated me by making me run for my life, that may satisfy their egos. I'm good with that, as long as I don't have to spend years dealing with lawyers, their grieving relatives and their angry fellow gang members.

[S3ymour]

Given the fact that you never know who or what kind of what kind of weapons a person is carrying, I'm not going to risk a tussle with one guy let alone two. I have a bum leg, so running anywhere isn't going to happen. I will verbally and visually advise them to stop while backing up, hand on gun. If they continue to advance, then I will stop the threat.

For those saying they are trained in mixed martial arts, I'm curious as to what you do if these two do end up getting you on the ground and getting your firearm from you? While dropping them with a judo chop or whatever sounds good, you are giving up a good defense allowing a BG to get that close to you. If something doesn't go right, you don't land the blow correctly, or they have a gun, and pull that on you while you are wrestling with one of them, what are you going to do? I just don't see this as a viable option, but rather a last, last resort when or if a firearm fails, and all else goes wrong. I'm not trying to say that hand to hand fighting shouldn't be trained, but rather that I'm not sure I would use it before my sidearm. Too much risk involved. Keep the distance, command to stop, stop the threat if necessary.

[Mongoose]

Given the fact that you never know who or what kind of what kind of weapons a person is carrying, I'm not going to risk a tussle with one guy let alone two. I have a bum leg, so running anywhere isn't going to happen. I will verbally and visually advise them to stop while backing up, hand on gun. If they continue to advance, then I will stop the threat.

For those saying they are trained in mixed martial arts, I'm curious as to what you do if these two do end up getting you on the ground and getting your firearm from you? While dropping them with a judo chop or whatever sounds good, you are giving up a good defense allowing a BG to get that close to you. If something doesn't go right, you don't land the blow correctly, or they have a gun, and pull that on you while you are with one of them, what are you going to do? I just don't see this as a viable option, but rather a last, last resort when or if a firearm fails, and all else goes wrong. I'm not trying to say that hand to hand fighting shouldn't be trained, but rather that I'm not sure I would use it before my sidearm. Too much risk involved. Keep the distance, command to stop, stop the threat if necessary.

I already stated what I would do! I would pull out my weapon! I do have common sense! LOL

[S3ymour]

I already stated what I would do! I would pull out my weapon! I do have common sense! LOL

Sorry Mongoose, wasn't meaning anything to you. I read what you would do, I was referring to the post by derekxec. Not yours in the sense you said what your first option would be. I do apologize, it triggered a bit of a rant on my part, as I have a friend who doesn't believe in conceal carry because they know martial arts. I'm a firm believer in being well rounded and every situation is different, and may call for a different approach or needed skill. Just didn't want you thinking I was calling you or Derekxec stupid. Prepare for the worse and hope for the best.

[Mongoose]

S3ymour,
LOL I felt nothing toward or aimed at me. I just posted to post! I am bored and just having fun talking (writing).

S3ymour, I also agree with what you have stated about being WELL ROUNDED. You hit the nail on the head. Why fight hand to hand when you have a weapon? Once again...common sense.. or as I used to say in the Army , "Pre-Combat Checks".... LOL

As far as your friend is concerned, he is living in a dream world. I really hope that he will never have to put his ego to the test. I mean that.

[derekxec]

Derekxec
I will make people mad, but I will say it anyway. 90% of what is taught in classes doesn’t work! The classic mess…… There is no time for high fancy kicks or complicated moves. When I fight I let my body take over and what I have found is that when the crap hits the fan the BASICS is what you depend on. Simple and direct! As you know who said, “Open your mind and your tools will strike” was 100% correct! LOL


Mixed martial arts is the way to go now. You have made a very, very good choice in learning this type of fighting. We can thank Bruce for this thinking! JDK! After all he set the standard.




Ray

thats why i love my instructor he was in vietnam and when someone tries to do something fancy like a kick to the head he makes them do 20 pushups haha! he says if you want to kick them in the head put them on thier knees first so you can get power behind it. i LOVE judo and trapping. ive been taking judo for 2 years now and shaolin(shaolin is dirty. my instructor the one from above doesnt believe in teaching what you cant use on the street. he loves gouging the eyes, hits to the groin etc) he also says "keep everything simple stupid"

and you are definately right if it wasnt for bruce lee mixed martial arts might not be around today.

"Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it" - Bruce Lee

that is exactly how i treat martial arts

[derekxec]

For those saying they are trained in mixed martial arts, I'm curious as to what you do if these two do end up getting you on the ground and getting your firearm from you? While dropping them with a judo chop or whatever sounds good, you are giving up a good defense allowing a BG to get that close to you. If something doesn't go right, you don't land the blow correctly, or they have a gun, and pull that on you while you are wrestling with one of them, what are you going to do? I just don't see this as a viable option, but rather a last, last resort when or if a firearm fails, and all else goes wrong. I'm not trying to say that hand to hand fighting shouldn't be trained, but rather that I'm not sure I would use it before my sidearm. Too much risk involved. Keep the distance, command to stop, stop the threat if necessary.

i only say that because i dont have a CCW yet so i wouldnt have a gun on me and fighting would be the very last resort(i would try to flee) and when you train martial arts you want everything to be a reaction so your body takes over instead of your brain. if they get you on the ground and are kicking you and such i guess you would be pretty much done but you could try to block with your elbow till one of them kicks it and hurts his leg lol. if you are in dirt you could grab dirt and throw it up and try to get it in thier eyes then you might be able to get up and run away....its hard to tell but if there is anything on the ground like say a brick you can bet i will be using it

[Kerbouchard]

If I could side step to put one or the other in between me and him then I would do so. I would almost certainly draw in that situation. Drunk tourists in Vegas venturing from Casino to Casino may seem like an easy mark. If I ran, I believe, like earlier posted it would precipitate a predator/prey situation. I would not run as I would not like to turn my back to a potential threat.

That's a tough situation, and I'm interested in hearing how you dealt with it successfuly. After all, you are making this post, not dead, and not in jail, so you obviously figured out a way to handle it well.

[bzdog]

I think any injection of "please" or "I don't want trouble" is going to look like weakness. I think Sgt. Mac has the verbal sweet spot.

-john

[TheHun]

Somebody mentioned if they didn't have any weapons I would have a hard time in front of the judge. Well remember two against one, gang assault?

Others stated drawing etc.
Well not looking for a civil lawsuit even if everything else goes just right. Civil lawsuits scare me...your wanna be killer's relatives sue you. Huh???
I am sure if I'll be in trouble I'll hold on to the last possible second before I even draw.

Anyways I just stepped (big ones almost running) to the right by the wall, creating - gaining back a little distance and walked (almost ran) by them. Keeping an eye on them- never touched my gun. Luckily for me (for them???) they lost interest in me very quick.
When I put like 30 yards between us I saw them they were already screwing with somebody else. Walked around the corner and I never seen them again.

Well what I learned that day. Even tho I am probably never in condition white...trouble can caught you off guard. Thugs prefer the surprise you.

[ccw9mm]

Real scenario, what would have you done?

Two "toughs" closing, obviously heading right for me, verbalizing their manifest intent to "kick my @ss," and my escape is blocked?

Draw, demand they rethink their lunacy, then respond to their response as needed. If they choose to plow that field, they're going to hit rock if I'm able. How it proceeds will be up to how quickly they go limp, submissive and face-down, to await arrival of the police.

Though, it sounds like a dangerous area. If alone, I'd have a hard time not believing they didn't have support staff nearby to assist in "defending" them against "criminals" (who refuse their attentions). That would drive much of what subsequently occurred, 'cause another couple of inbound toughs with arms would dramatically change the math of my surviving that counter.

[Sergeant Mac]

When giving the Verbal Command also give a Visual Command: Arm Straight Out, palm facing out. This says "Stop" to anyone.

A pistol in hand is also effective as a "visual command"....

I'd think that'd cause most people to reevaluate the decisions they've made up to that point.

[S3ymour]

i only say that because i dont have a CCW yet so i wouldnt have a gun on me and fighting would be the very last resort(i would try to flee) and when you train martial arts you want everything to be a reaction so your body takes over instead of your brain. if they get you on the ground and are kicking you and such i guess you would be pretty much done but you could try to block with your elbow till one of them kicks it and hurts his leg lol. if you are in dirt you could grab dirt and throw it up and try to get it in thier eyes then you might be able to get up and run away....its hard to tell but if there is anything on the ground like say a brick you can bet i will be using it

Ahhh, now that makes more sense for me Derekxec. I remember the days when I wasn't able to carry(I'm only 23 now) and in reality, I should do more to learn some basic h2h, in case I ever do get into a grapple. With my leg though I worry about instructors not wanting to teach me because I won't be able to "properly" do some of the moves...