From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable

This is a discussion on From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by BerneyG Yes, Aikido for the last several years and Karate when I was younger. Police officers have told me that they would ...

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Thread: From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerneyG View Post
    Yes, Aikido for the last several years and Karate when I was younger. Police officers have told me that they would do anything from holding down a hammer on a revolver to trying to drop a mag in a semi so I figure that's what I would try to do.

    I figure if he has gotten control of my gun, we are probably in a grappling type situation, and I believe I will probably be more familiar with the manual of arms of my pistol than he will be. If it doesn't work, well, things already went from 'bad to worse'...it was worth a try.
    I spent 3 years of my late youth just absolutely OBSESSING over martial arts. I went to classes faithfully, three times a week, and practiced for at least an hour EVERY day.

    In Basic Training, I learned H2H combat, and practiced that frequently. In MP school, I learned "Unarmed Self Defense", and practiced that regularly.

    At the Nebraska Law Enforcement Training Center, I learned PPCT, and practiced that regularly.

    And STILL, when it's time to go hands-on, it's VERY rare that what I do to win more than superficially resembles any "sophisticated" technique I've ever learned and practiced. The SIMPLE techniques, however, nearly always come into play.

    Real fights are free-for-alls. They are fast, close, and sloppy. Precision goes out the window as soon as the adrenaline valves go full-bore, free-flow open.

    IMHO, you can forget about punching that mag release. It's way too small of a target, especially if it's moving. Based upon what I've learned from the rasslin' matches I've had over the years, I think the move that stands the best chance of success is to grab the gun with both hands and TWIST it out of theirs with all of your might -- with every bit of muscle and body mass you can bring to bear.

    Once you have reclaimed the gun, HIT them as hard as you can, create distance, and then be prepared to shoot.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Respectfully...you're dreaming. Have you done H2H?

    Rick
    Respectfully, have you? Some folks on this forum have. Also, I think the answer was practical. Better to do something than nothing.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Sgt, yeah, I watched that video that Ram Rod posted. And in that situation, if I thought I could get away with it, I might try it...will probably try to practice that with an airsoft...it was a pretty interesting demonstration.

    From Lima's post, I visualised a BG closing on me as I was drawing where we were both struggling for the weapon, that was where my response about the mag release came from. If the BG had disarmed me and was pointing the gun at my head, I would probably try twisting it out(after some practice), but most likely, if we were that close, I would step forward and to my left since it is harder for most people to readjust aim to their strong side. At that point, my plan would be for me to be past the point of the gun and a jab to the throat if available.

    It would completely depend on how well the guy was holding the gun, if he appeared familiar with the manual of arms, and a host of other things. How steady his hand is might even play a factor.

    And yes, I agree emphatically with you. I know of few fights where anything resembling sophistication took place. But that's not to say a scientific punch will not be more effective than a wild swing. I do know of a lot of fights where a jab beat a looping haymaker.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I guess mom telling me to wear clean underwear everyday you never know when you might get in an accident would be worthless in this case.if somebody grabs my gun and i survive it i'm throwin that pair out

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    He may get the gun but the fight isn't over till one of us is outcold or dead. Never give up fighting. If he is close enough to gain controll of your gun running isn't really on option. What ever you do, cheat , fight dirty. Kick scratch scream use anything you can grab as a weapon. You are in the thick of it, your life is at stake. Never give up.

  7. #21
    Member Array cspearling's Avatar
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    When it's your life on the line there is no such thing as fighting dirty!!! If it has a remote chance of giving you a inkling of hope it's worth a try or even two. The only way to loose is to give up hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by raevan View Post
    . What ever you do, cheat , fight dirty. Kick scratch scream use anything you can grab as a weapon. You are in the thick of it, your life is at stake. Never give up.
    "I'd rather be judged in a box by a jury than carred in a box by my friends!"

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cspearling View Post
    When it's your life on the line there is no such thing as fighting dirty!!!
    If you're not CHEATING, you're not TRYING!

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Do your best to hang on to the gun while blasting the guy with head-butts and knee-strikes, bite his ear off, stab him, whatever. Just don't give up.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

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  10. #24
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
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    Well, if I were Lima, I would pull out that fancy K-bar TDI and relieve his arm of a few key tendons.

    Me, fight for retention like my life depended on it and drop the mag if possible (mag safety). Admittedly, I've never trained in any H2H, so I'm excited about a new Krav Maga place opening up here soon.
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Try to maintain some amount of control of the weapon and elbows to the upper body, knees to the lower body, and stomp on his feet.
    If that fails, scream like a six year old girl and run!
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  12. #26
    Member Array Logan5's Avatar
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    Hannibal Lecture style bite to the face or hand.
    That should take his mind off the gun and to where the pain is coming from.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck brick View Post
    [I]

    A couple options:
    Run like H&LL, screaming like a banshee...

    Run OVER him, screaming like a banshee...
    Chuck may have one of the key ingredients here. The banshee scream would most definitely cause BG to loose focus for a second or two, an eternity in any fight, allowing disarm, bite, kick, break, tear, etc.

    Chuck, any chance of you getting us a sample sound bite of that banshee scream?

    The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

  14. #28
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    Winning is not going to be by any 'fair' means...
    If you ARE going to react, it better be quick and violent...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  15. #29
    Member Array Eliot Ness's Avatar
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    Use Krav and pray!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  16. #30
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    Aside from having studied Weapon Retention and Disarmament, this is why I carry a BUG and a Fixed Blade Knife.

    Biker

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