From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable - Page 5

From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable

This is a discussion on From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by azmnfordtrk07 I skimmed fast through this forum so sorry if repeating, not intentional. A. Your pistol, shotgun, or rifle can be taken ...

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Thread: From Bad to Worse: The Unthinkable

  1. #61
    New Member Array sgtgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azmnfordtrk07 View Post
    I skimmed fast through this forum so sorry if repeating, not intentional.

    A. Your pistol, shotgun, or rifle can be taken or batted out of the way, or knocked down very easily. Once you accept that, its on to the next step. (You can try it with unloaded airsoft or rubber gun etc. Airsofts are nice due to hammer drop, you can test human reaction time, by a person actually trying to press a trigger and when the hammer drops (click) game is over, its not fast...) I have had average people with no experience batting guns out with ease, and the guy holding the gun was ready for it, I even had the BG tell him when he was going to do it!! And he still couldn't, the gun didn't fall but BG got his knife or gun to bear, if none (like some exercises) the BG in 60% (these are avg joes) demonstrated the ability to on the ground get gun away or demonstrate a H2H move that was demovolizing most commonly a blow to stomach or the scary one no one thinks about.... the throat!

    B. Don't let perp/bg get that close, the police and military know the threat of even a knife at a distance, in that a person can travel a distance fast and unexpected. It is why a person with a knife can be and has been killed by police. It varies for depts and the officers own personal safety level at the scene at that time at that event etc. but I think its 8-10ft, I know alot prefer 20-30ft, if they get within that, they can do bodily harm to you with a knife. The news the other day (there was a police shooting a bg with a knife said 30ft so I am going to have to look again) (I am glad the news said that, the other times they tried to make the police out to be bad:( I would add that their hands in that range is justifiable as a weapon, only if its one on one, but courts frown on that type of police "murder" :) Most of time in hands two or more police tackle him, the best part is when one steps on the neck, simple, easy and effective. , while the other cuffs. Seen it done many times, the perp didn't fight anymore.

    C. I urge people to watch Collateral, with Tom Cruise. I am not a big Tom Cruise fan, nor is his technique perfect, but the guy who trained him is ex-SAS and its commonly available medium for people to see this. Tom Cruise batting the gun and shooting the two BGs with is briefcase in the alley is real and definately can happen, the club scene is generally realistic, and you can take down a person that fast, like he does to the first two, although caution should be exercised in that a body is not a good form of protection for bullets and taking on that many hostiles wasn't a good idea but they had to make it a movie. I don't think a real assassin would do that. Also, the end train scene was "interesting" everyone should have been dead. That is not the point, most people I just show that scene or scenes and they realize hey, that is fast!

    D. Think ahead of the criminal, only pros/combat veterans etc. can reliably do this, so we need something else.... ahh yes training! Train to not let people in that zone, or you will fire, (warn them first if possible and follow good shoot rules etc., I am taking this for granted we know that) Train in a good H2H method, karate isn't always reliable and the list goes on you need a mix (which was already covered), most people will degenerate into free for all etc.due to adrenaline and panic. Hopefully you will remember something and it will work. For those pros, they will think ahead and be able to know exactly how they can get in and out and do the max amnt of damage. This is done by releasing aggression and immediately turning off, this also needs practice and some pretty in depth almost real training to curb adrenaline, tunnel vision, locking up of actions etc. Just how we need to train muscles when shooting the pros train to immediately at disarmament do a set move, like when you stop when you get to a stop sign, it is lightening fast, and you don't want it. They go by the motto if they are close of enough to do that (disarm) I am close enough to mess them up, and they do. Broken arms, noses, or legs are common depending on the height of the BG.
    They had lots of hrs of training to do that and it is automatic, most nor can I do that. Most people will fight for your life, there are no rules just surviaval.

    If you see the pros in action, it is amazing. I have, it is like it didn't happen, it was that fast, if i would have blinked it would have been gone. They know their limits but still don't like taking the risk for a H2H disarming of a hostile, nor do they like to get in close because it means they can be disarmed or harmed by hidden weapons, they do it for quiet, crowd control or other reasons in that discharging a firearm (the safest option) may lead to more chaos and/or a lessened level of security. They are paid/required to take that risk. We aren't stay alive and stay safe.

    For us, we need to not let people get close, if gun goes bye bye make sure it isn't a BG who is trained to reverse the shotgun on you (I know that is impossible, just being facetious), and then fight H2H, there are no rules, training helps but full moves and/or sets probably won't be utilized. Utter aggression is key mixed in with survival instincts. Hit fast, hit hard, and hopefully you can surprise him as he did you.

    Stay safe, stay armed, study H2H and at least think of it, I think too many times people think gun will solve everything but there are times when H2H could solve it, also a gun won't always be there and its easy to not have it in the most needful time; we can be disarmed that is a fact of life, and drawing a BUG IMHO cannot be done in the time frame needed to react to the disarmament of you, unless you are ahead of the game and somehow predicted or where ready with hand in pocket etc. for it...?? But if you knew that your main gun would be disarmed... right:) Have fun and stay safe!

    Later,
    no harm meant to anyone just some food for thought
    +1 On this! There is nothing that I wouldn't do to get away alive, turn cannibal, feel gush coming out of eye sockets, deep cuts from my knife, etc. It is on and I will not lay down without some serious injury on the BG up to my last exhalation.
    "If you run...you'll only die tired!"

    SgtGarcia
    Traveling Man #229


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    BUG time and hope like heck it's fast enough.
    Les Baer 45
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  3. #63
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Cut him high, wide, deep, low, long & continuously.

    If I don't have a knife, I'll just do it another way.

    I may die, but I'll be going out of this world in the same way I came into it: Screaming & covered in someone else's blood.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    He might have the gun...but not my bug or my folding blade. One way or another he's going to bleed. I might as well...but I'm not going to stop fighting until I'm not breathing.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  5. #65
    Member Array mrhutch's Avatar
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    if he's that close, i'd punch him in the throat, knee him in the nuts, grab his hair and slam his head on my knee, recover my gun and shoot him if he moves before the cops show.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    What would you do if you were disarmed?

    However unthinkable. However unlikely. However implausible. No matter how much you think it couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't happen.

    What would you do if you were in a situation where you drew your gun, or were in the process of drawing your gun to respond to a threat, and the bad guy was able to take it from you?
    If I had no mode of escape (an option I would have taken before if possible), I would fight to regain my weapon... because your assumption almost dictates (at lest in my case) that he is literally in hand to hand combat distances.

    If I were at home during this encounter, I and there was I chance I could run for a 2nd weapon (I keep at lest 2 guns loaded), then that could be an option.

    THIS is a good reason to carry a BUG...

  7. #67
    Member Array texasccw's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting subject. I was thinking the same thing when I wanted my fiance to get a CHL. This would be a very bad situation for a woman if she is not ready for it. I would say if you are a more smaller woman the best case would be to use some sort of mace or tazer to get some sort of distance between you and the attacker so you can get your gun back. For a man, fight til one of you isnt fighting anymore!

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasccw View Post
    This is a very interesting subject. I was thinking the same thing when I wanted my fiance to get a CHL. This would be a very bad situation for a woman if she is not ready for it. I would say if you are a more smaller woman the best case would be to use some sort of mace or tazer to get some sort of distance between you and the attacker so you can get your gun back. For a man, fight til one of you isnt fighting anymore!
    This would be a very bad situation for anyone.

    I disagree with trying to use OC or a Taser...First of all, how long is it going to take to access said tool? How are you going to get the gun back if you've already "created distance?" Remember, the guy just took your gun and is probably going to try to use it on you, you don't have time to screw around.

    The only real options I see are effective H2H methods, or perhaps use of a knife carried in a manner that allows very rapid access. My preference is for a small fixed-blade near the centerline (e.g. push-dagger, TDI, Clinch Pick, etc.).
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  9. #69
    Member Array texasccw's Avatar
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    Good point kenpo. I'm thinking more for a woman in that situation since I am struggling with the decision of encouraging my fiance to get her chl. I dont know what I would do with myself if someone took her weapon and used it on her or my children. This will be a long discussion with her very soon.

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