What would you do?--Approached by 3-4 young adults.
This is a discussion on What would you do?--Approached by 3-4 young adults. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks for all of the great repsonses.
To me, this seems like one situation where it would be prudent (if legal in your area) to ...
March 7th, 2008 07:32 AM
Thanks for all of the great repsonses.
To me, this seems like one situation where it would be prudent (if legal in your area) to open-carry. The "group" would/could SEE that you were armed and possibly move along to an easier target. If they chose you KNOWING that you were carrying, then that itself is an indication of their intentions, right? They may come with a weapon of their own, which would make the decision to defend yourself MUCH easier.
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Originally Posted by Dal1Celt
March 7th, 2008 09:45 AM
Hmmmmmmm. What would Bernie Goetz say? " I have five dollars for each of you."
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March 7th, 2008 10:32 AM
It would all depends on more info:
Where are you; for a casual walk around your neighborhood, or a parking lot downtown after a show?
None hostel example:
We live in a seaside town, where hobo frequent. They (meaning 2-3) will often come up to you in the park and ask for a smoke, or do ya have a dollar to spare. Sometimes, Iíll hand them a buck, and others Iíll just keep walking, and say no.
After work one night, I was in town walking back to my truck at around 11 pm. when 4-5 youth came walking up to me from a street side parking lot, (thereís a youth dance club nearby) two of them where on an interception course asking if I had a dollar to spare.
I put my hand in my jacket pocket where my pocket gun was, and I responded no, and kept walking right between two of them.
They kept making rude jesters and vulgar commits as I walked away but none of them followed. As soon as I was about 100 yards away, I used my cell and called 911, and reported where they where, and what they where up to.
In the first case itís easy to tell they are hobo, and in the second case, no weapons where visible, and while 5 on 1 is a threat; I did not see a need to ďbrandishĒ a weapon.
Brandishing a weapon in Florida is a felony, (LEO are exempt) and is only justifiable, when you feel your life is in jeopardy. Since there were no visible weapons, I did not want to escalade the situation by drawing my weapon. And instead save my little ďbugĒ for a surprise.
Sure, you might say that after Iím smacked in the back of the head with a beer bottle it would be too late. And Iíll have to say your right. But, life is full of decisions, and you are the one who has to live with it.
March 7th, 2008 10:47 AM
I don't open carry usually unless I'm out hunting but the sight of a firearm on your waste can be a deturant. I used to work as a cell site tech and would get called out all hours of the night. We had one site that was in a bad neighbor. At night, they would stand on the yellow line in the middle of the road and sell drugs right in front the sight. Cars would come from either direction, stop on the road, buy their drugs and move on. Everytime I went there, I had my Model 66 357 in a OWB holster, as exposed I could. I never got messed with once and I never called the cops once because I knew if I did, they would have known who called and the unspoken mutial understanding probably would have been off.
March 7th, 2008 01:06 PM
I agree with you wholeheartedly. This comment sums up so many of the varying opinions in this and other threads. Once you make the decision to draw or to shoot, you are the one that has to live with your actions. You and the guy you may shoot, but I think we can all agree that at this moment I/we really don't care about the BGs opinion. Very well stated.
Originally Posted by tns0038
The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD
March 7th, 2008 02:52 PM
1) There is an obvious disparity of force...you're clearly outnumbered
2) Are you in fear for your life?
I don't like the term 'brandish'...to me, that implies displaying the gun merely as a threat of display. I'm of the belief that anytime you feel the need (imminent threat to you or others) to draw the weapon, you must be fully prepared to pull the trigger, and not merely draw it to display as a threat.
If by drawing the weapon (and preparing yourself to fire if necessary), the threat of violence alone is enough to end the threat, then that's great. Nobody gets hurt. Police get called...maybe BG gets picked up before he tries that mess on an unarmed citizen.
When presenting a weapon, the mindset should be "if the BG does so-and-so, I will pull the trigger."
To me, drawing to brandish or threaten implies a mindset of "I hope the BG stops when he sees the gun." If the BG does not stop, then it becomes an issue of "oh, crap, he didn't back down WHAT DO I DO NOW?" And then, maybe, you can get to "If the BG does so-and-so, I will pull the trigger."
It can be broken down into one of the four rules, whereby you do not point the weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy. It does not say it's okay to point the weapon at something you're only willing to scare.
March 7th, 2008 05:42 PM
Open carry in a situation like this might not be a good idea. If they can see you are armed, they may act nice until they are close enough to take your gun from you. Good luck keeping 4 guys from getting your gun! I think the element of surprise that concealment provides is worth the extra time it takes to clear the cover garment. Also, in this situation those 4 guys would have to be pretty aggressive to be doing that at all. OC would fill up one of your hands and only work on one effectively - meantime the other 3 can beat you down. I would draw in this situation, and shoot as many times as I needed to insure my own safety.
March 7th, 2008 07:36 PM
depending on where you live even walking towards a group like that shoul dhave been avoided. The first weapon you have is your brain...remove yoruself from potential problems first....foot speed...speed up get around them do not let yourself GET surrounded..Id rather run that have to shoot some kid...BUT i am drawing as I create distance...They pursue its time to turn and stand my ground and shoot the first punk that doesnt understand that leave me alone means just that....Tough call once your surrounded...it all depends on how escalated and how close they get...If you leave survivors it's tyheor word against yours and if there are anough of them your in trouble
March 7th, 2008 10:10 PM
My father taught me as a youngster to deal with gangs by going for their leader first. Hurt him as bad and as fast as you can and the rest will leave you alone. Only 1 time did I have to use that and it worked great. I was in school and while we didn't call them gangs we called them hoods back then. When they surrounded me and tried to pick a fight because I said something about how they never fought one on one and had hurt a friend of mine. I went for the one they looked up to, beat him across the hall, knocked him down, beat his face into an open school locker and slammed the door. It latched on his head and they needed a janitor to pry it open while he screamed in pain. No one ever gave me trouble after that. Not even the principal who called my father and thanked him for what I did. They kicked the leader of the hoods out of school for good. I'm too old for fists now and if the same situation presented it self I'd shoot the leader first and if that didn't take the fight out of them keep shooting every one facing me.
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I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.
March 8th, 2008 09:16 PM
This is a good thread...thanks for all the great comments. I've learned a lot.
I interpret this to be a nonlethal threat, but dangerous enough to warrant quick, firm action. Thinking in terms of force continuum, I would start with retreat (if tactically feasible) and verbal "judo", then escalate to OC if threat continues. Always on the lookout for a weapons - knife, tire tool, baseball bat, etc. - which would solicit instant lethal force response on my part
+1 on 1 round per BG in multiple threat scenario.
March 8th, 2008 10:51 PM
I carry a hickory stick about 3 feet long and about an inch in diameter with me when I walk. Seasoned hickory at that. I think I could create enough distance with it to give me some breathing room.
It's not what you go thru in life, but how well you go thru it.
March 9th, 2008 08:42 AM
Add another factor into the original scenario: Your wife/significant other is with you as these four "gentlemen" are approaching. How does this affect your response?
March 9th, 2008 06:51 PM
Of course, all of this is moot, in reality.
Coming from a martial arts background, I used to get a LOT of 'What would you do if I did this?' or 'What would you do if so-and-so happened?'.
Took me a while to realize the answer is 'I don't know'. There are WAY too many factors involved in any such 'what if...?' scenario: terrain, witnesses, environment, time of day, location, companions, etc.
Sure, it's good to have a general plan, but I now keep in mind two things:
1) Only expect what happens in the fight...that way, you'll never be surprised.
2) Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
March 9th, 2008 10:45 PM
Having the wife along is super...she has a gun also, and...she has the advantage in 'disparity of force' scenarios.
Originally Posted by HarleyDriver
I'm in my 6th decade...I get loud and rude...I will not let myself or my wife and I get surrounded. I would probably cross the street or parking lot if approached...if the teens change directions...I sense an 'intent' already. Then I would be giving loud verbal directions and the wife would be on the cell...for the rest of the story, well, I guess you'd have to be there...
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March 10th, 2008 09:16 AM
Why are you standing in place, waiting to be encircled? Why are you being nice and talking to them? Proper response:"Who the he** smokes anymore?"
If the group starts spreading out, cut to the outside-make them bring it on right then, or leave you alone.
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