What would you do?--Approached by 3-4 young adults.

You're walking alone down a quiet residential street, carrying and in Condition Yellow.. You're approached by a group of older teens/young adults. Let's say there's 3-4 of them. One of them starts asking for money or smokes. You say no and keep walking. They then surround you and start threatening to "escalate" the encounter. You've seen no weapons, but they aren't backing off and are getting louder and more threatening.
Your fear of bodily harm is genuine and valid, but they've shown no weapons.
When (or do?) you draw and try to retreat? Is that brandishing at this point? Other options?
I got thinking about this scenerio last night for some reason. It's never happened to me, but...

4 on one ? I'd have no problem brandishing. Brandishing (IMHO) is no more threatening than 4 guys ganging around you. Equal force, so to speak.

4 guys surround you at contact distance?

How are your retention skills?

Better create some distance if you can or go to a contact distance weapon. Knife, club, hands or feet?

Disparity of numbers, of force. Yell, "Leave me alone, go away" if not, double tap one at a time.

Outnumbered, and surrounded 4 to 1? Making threatening comments/gestures after already attempting to leave, and only continue to get louder and more threatening?

Time to draw. I damn sure wouldn't risk getting jumped/beat and lose control of my weapon to 4 violent teens/adults. Once a weapon is drawn if they make any more advancements it's pretty obvious there intentions. If someone advances at all at that point it's game over.

I would put as much distance between us as pssible telling them to back off,if they try to close the gap and have already made comments putting me in fear for my safety/life first one gets double tapped ,rest are ordered face down on ground and 911 call.

It's a tough situation. I think you'd have a hard time convincing a jury why you had to shoot an unarmed person for simply making verbal threats. However, being surrounded and outnumbered is REAL bad if the group decides to make it more than a verbal altercation all at once. It seems that you'd ALMOST need to wait until they laid a hand on you, but by then it could be too late to respond effectively.

I mean theres defintely something where your life could be easily in danger,...

Just a note on tactics here, nobody should get shot twice until everybody gets shot once. Often, the recipient of said bullet registers no immediate reaction. While you're evaluating whether to fire again or not, the others are monkey stomping you. Practice moving as smoothly as possible between multiple targets.

Now on to the original scenario and my opinion. I'm not 19 and bulletproof anymore, so several yoots surrounding me and acting in a threatening manner is a concern. As soon as a direct threat of violence was made, it would be time to act. If they back down at the draw, good. If not, you gotta play the cards that fall.

I'm 60yrs old, one heart attack. Me, sometime before being surrounded, BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG.

HELLO, 911, I've been attacked by four hooligans, please send help.

Ken

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Originally Posted by 1911 guy

Just a note on tactics here, nobody should get shot twice until everybody gets shot once. Often, the recipient of said bullet registers no immediate reaction. While you're evaluating whether to fire again or not, the others are monkey stomping you. Practice moving as smoothly as possible between multiple targets.

Now on to the original scenario and my opinion. I'm not 19 and bulletproof anymore, so several yoots surrounding me and acting in a threatening manner is a concern. As soon as a direct threat of violence was made, it would be time to act. If they back down at the draw, good. If not, you gotta play the cards that fall.

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I'm thinking the same on this one.

Probably know who the 'brave' one is, (he asked for the smokes). Discreetly put your hand on your peackeeper, looking him straight in the eye say 'nice evening for a walk', play it from there.
Hopefully the tough guy gets the idea you will ruin their day if it escalates any further.

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Originally Posted by Scott

4 guys surround you at contact distance?
....if you can ... go to a contact distance weapon. Knife, club, hands or feet?

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My handgun is also a contact weapon - the first one in my face, gets the end of a .45-inch (or 9mm) steel pipe as hard as I can punch in their face, throat, mouth, sternum - whatever is most available and/or most disrupting - as I move through him. Do not remain surrounded. As you pass any one of them, they will, then, all be on one side of you (in front, unless you're running), which groups them all together in your full view/line of fire. Disparity of force, since we aren't in England :danceban:, is legal to defend against as you feel necessary. The introductory blow would perform multiple functions:
1) Demonstrate that you are not a willing/easy victim;
2) Break their focus (OODA loop), even if only for a moment (especially the one with the broken teeth/round scar/cracked sternum!);
3) Give you an effective contact weapon in-hand that can immediately escalate if you need it to (without the delay and awkwardness of transitioning between knife and gun);
4) If you do have to shoot, you will have proof in court that you tried an alternative defense before you did shoot.
I've seen this tactic referred to disdainly as "Pistol-Whipping," but it's not - it's a defensive, last-ditch, alternative, non-lethal use of the gun. "Pistol-Whipping" is using the gun offensively to intimidate and/or injure someone.
What I would not do is announce or show the firearm prior to it's forceful application to the perp's person. No Brandishing!! Being surrounded, you have only one chance to surprise before at least one of them (probably one out of your clear field of view) escalates by taking you out - hard. Don't crap it away.

Stay safe,

Chuck Brick.

Thats one of those scenarios we all dread and also one where "being there" is the only way to have the "right" answer.

Some things I wonder about are seeing and avoiding the group before you get to them and maybe access to a near by residence for help.

Once your surrounded, it sounds like it's time to rock and roll to me! :comeandgetsome:

I would have already had my hand on my OC, (left hand/weak hand) after the first "harrassment". If they attempted to surround me at that point I would OC the tough guy or who ever was directly in front of me and attempt to push through him before turning on the guys who were attempting to surround me, I dont have eyes in the back of my head is the reason I am going through one guy before turning, OC is not an instant incapacatator, but it is going to give me time to flee if I can, or at least get into a better firing spot if they choose to come foward after I oc them. I get past number one and Then and only then do I try to draw, when I know there isnt someone behind me who could very well disarm me before I got my pistol out, when I am past number one if the other guys are feeling frisky they get some OC as well, once my handgun is out if they insist on coming foward its closest target first, second if need be, third if need be, fourth if need be. Since I dont own property where I could practice shooting 360 I would be very uncomfortable if I had to even try it, People at the range I use think Im wierd because I will wait and use 3 lanes for multiple target situations, I think its worth the wait, and since I have an anual membership if its too busy one day I will go out durring the week if I have too.

Learn something new every day, I always double tapped each target before moving on, but I will practice the one shot to each threat. (I worry about multiple bad guys because strong arm robbery of stores usually have multiple perps) I have always said that if they have the drop on me they can have the cash, but if I see hoodlums getting out of their car with masks and guns I am not waiting to see if they are robbing first or shooting first, so I take multiple targets a little more seriously. Always figured two to the first guy, then move to the next one if they breach the door together though I can see why one shot each then moving back for follow up shots as needed would be better for my survival.