This is a discussion on Put your hands were I can see them... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is a video of two police officers making an arrest. They are arresting another police officer. Of course, he knows all the right things ...
Here is a video of two police officers making an arrest. They are arresting another police officer. Of course, he knows all the right things to say and is trying to get out of the arrest.
Ya, I know it is a movie and ya, we all know the BG is going to try something. But the question is, say you confront a BG in your home. You tell him to put his hands where you can see them and he starts these diversion tactics to get at his weapon. You know what he is trying to do, but at what point is that final warning truly a final warning? When do you shoot when he is not obeying your instructions and you suspect/know he is going for a weapon?
At the point where he appears, within the totality of the circumstances, to be REACHING for a weapon, with intent to kill or inflict serious bodily injury.
Deception is merely a factor in the totality of the circumstances. It is not, in and of itself, justification to use deadly force.
Two points:
In the video, the "good guy" officers go for cover once the shooting starts. Since cover was nearby, why didn't they START OUT there?
Always remember when you tell someone to do something, that you are programming yourself to EXPECT them to move in that manner. Think of this in relation to the command, "Put your hands where I can see them", or, more specifically, "Take your hands OUT OF YOUR POCKETS". What's the concern with their hands in their pockets? That they might have a weapon concealed in there, already in their hands? And, by giving that command, you are essentially giving them free passage to pull that weapon out. There may be no discernable difference, until just before the actual attack, between their visible actions when they comply with your command, and when they begin an attack.
If you're going to tell someone to take their hands out of their pockets, tell them to turn around, facing away from you, first.
....and move to a location other than where they first saw you standing before you tell them to take their hands out of their pockets.
Psalms 144:1
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas http://www.tac-def-tx.com/
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Retired LEO
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I'm not going to have any conversations or arguments or give commands to any BG I find in my home.
If I were acting in some kind of official capacity and trying to detain someone, I would be a little less "puss-like" than the blonde guy in the clip. OC would be nice, but the guy is clearly looking around, trying to find an escape route. In other words, he isn't giving up....so, he (obviously since we saw the end) may end up getting shot.
Face down, arms out at a 45 degree angle, face away from me, cross your ankles, cross them the other way - that's basically the idea. Then you go up and start kicking a lot. This is all theoretical and only feasible if you have lots of guys with guns watching your back. Otherwise its probably best to just shoot or let them go. Try to detain someone by yourself is asking to get killed....IMO
Movies are scripted. If they don't follow the directors directions they do it over. In real life you get one chance and few people will try some movie trick. An attack is fast and violent.
Great question / example. I watched it a few times. What makes it hard is that, with editing, your sight picture alternates between perspectives. When the camera shot goes back to Snipes, his strong side hand is already out of sight as he deceptively tries to get them to focus on the hat.
So to answer the question, I'd shoot as soon as I can't see that hand. Especially if I have reason to suspect Wesley is armed.
I find BG is in my home, and if he is lucky enough that I give a warning and his hand(s) go out of sight I'm shooting with extreme prejudice to "stop the threat".
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
- General George Patton Jr
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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BG, 
911
Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac
