Simunitions FOF scenarios I have been in...

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Thread: Simunitions FOF scenarios I have been in...

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    Simunitions FOF scenarios I have been in...

    These are some FOF Simunition scenarios I have been in. The scenarios are interactive in that there is a role player(s) and you can talk to any of them. There can be from one to four people involved besides yourself. The settings, i.e. buildings, rooms, etc. are set up to support the scenario.

    Altogether these are long but I’ve arranged them in short episodes so you can read as many as you like.

    Scenario 1:
    I’m in a restaurant and leave the table and go to the restroom. From the restroom I hear yelling, and sneak a peak. Dilemma: a guy with a gun is threatening to kill a cook in the kitchen. The customers are down on their knees with their hands in the air. I’m armed, so do I intervene? We’ve discussed this before, but I decide to shoot the BG. I happen to be using a Glock which was my choice for the drill. I sight, press and click; the Simuntion’s round failed. Rack, sight, press, then click – again. I look at my instructor, he shrugs, which meant, don’t look me, you got your self into this. So I rack, sight, press and click. What am I doing wrong? Rack, sight, press, click. Repeat; finally slide locks back. As I start to throw the now empty gun, the instructor calls time out. We reload and start again. This time I shoot the BG and feel a sting on my wrist and realize I’ve been shot but not by the BG. I pivot to my right and see one of the “customers” with a gun. I did a rapid four shot burst and had four hits in less than a second. The lesson I learned: there’s probably a tail gunner, dummy.

    Scenario 2:
    I drive up to my office building and see a car recklessly parked, that belongs to an employee that was recently fired. Inside I hear yelling and realize this guy has likely killed somebody. I say my solution is call 911. My instructor says fine, but handle the problem. I pie the corner and see the BG has cut a guys throat and is ranting. From my cover position, I used commands to get him to drop the knife and get on his knees with his back to me and his hands in the air. So realizing he is down an unarmed, I move around the corner and half way down the hall. He starts saying it’s not his fault and gets up. I back up, and command him to get back down. He seems confused, distraught, is jabbering, and pacing in small circles well away from me. I watch him to make sure he doesn’t go for the knife he dropped, when he reaches up on a refrigerator and grabs something and wheels around. It’s a gun! So we shoot each other! The lesson I learned: you left your cover, dummy.

    Scenario 3:
    I come home and find the door jimmied. Knowing my wife is inside and may be in imminent danger I call 911 – SOP and then go in. So with gun drawn, I pie a corner and sure enough, there’s the BG standing at the end of a hallway. He’s alone so I order him to “Freeze” he says “OK, OK don’t shoot” and then turns to run. You gotta be careful. This may not be the BG. He may have seen a problem and tried to help; there’s no way to know. He wasn’t armed or threatening. But the thought process was just enough hesitation for him to escape down the hall. I was at an angle to the hall so I couldn’t see down it.

    So now, I have no choice but to clear my house by myself to protect my wife. Boy, this one is a nightmare of the first degree. It is clearly a no win layout. There are half-height walls, doorways such that it is impossible to clear without turning your back on an uncleared area. I mentioned to my instructor this is impossible. He said, “Some situations really suck don’t they.”

    I had cleared all but one big room to my left so I started in there. I hadn’t gotten far until the instructor tapped me on the shoulder. I turned to see it wasn’t the instructor, it was the BG and instead of shooting me down like I deserved, they had the grace to spare what little self-esteem I had left. I said where’d you come from? He said “I hid in the abandoned refrigerator you passed twice. The lesson I learned: Don’t assume, check everything. Action (him suddenly running) beats reaction.

    Scenario 4:
    I’m in another restaurant when an angry guy comes in with a long stick (clearly a deadly weapon) yelling something about where is she. He’s threatening violence and menacing customers. I tell the guy, that I think who he’s looking for just went out back the back door. He says “Oh, yeah….” and starts out the door after her. I tell the guys in the restaurant to get out and we all take off out the door. And so it ended with me being a hero by distracting the BG, and getting all the customers out without even drawing my gun.

    However, here’s what I think would have happened if I had engaged the angry man. I would have been forced to shoot him to protect myself and his dearest friend would have shot me while I was shooting the BG. The lesson I learned: sometimes there’s a better solution than a gunfight. If there’s no other way, you better be prepared to deal with the sleeper.

    Scenario 5:
    I’m in a mountain cabin far off in the woods and from my room I hear an guy doing some noisy things not too far from my room. I get my gun and just peek out the door to see what’s going on. I see a guy with a shotgun vandalizing and trying to find things to steal. Unfortunately he sees me. I close the door, which for the sake of the scenario, won’t lock, but I take cover behind a inside doorway. The door the BG will come in, is hinged on the side I’m on so the door will even work in my favor. After some exchanges about my billfold and the police, etc. he breaks through the door and the gunfight is on.

    He only knows where I am, by where my voice was coming from as we talked through the door. Plus, I was concealed behind another door way and when he “broke” through the door, it would be positioned between him and me. He still managed to locate me and shoot me on the left elbow – the only thing that was exposed. When we looked at him, he had three little blue Simunitions marks on his chest and one on his strong hand that would have been in front of his chest because of the way he was holding the shotgun.

    My instructors wanted to know why I let him in and didn’t shoot through the door. I told them I wanted to be sure of my target. They said “You had already seen him, you knew he was armed, you knew he was an imminent armed threat, and he was verbally threatening you. I said, “Yeah, but, I had lost visual contact with him and for all I knew he could have had an innocent person in front of him for shield.” That pretty much ended the discussion. The lesson I learned: In a gunfight, you could get shot. Some of my fellow students decided to leave their cabin and confront this guy. You could tell which one’s did it; they had little blue pellet marks all over them.

    Scenario 6:
    I’m in a van that broke down on the road. A guy pulls up in front of me, gets out of his car and walks back to my van, I stay in my van, I’ve learned a little something by now. He begins with, “Any thing I can do to help?”

    I roll the driver’s side window down half way to talk to him. I tell him that help is on the way, I notified the police and they’re on the way and so is AAA. He says he’s so and so and reaches up to shake hands and I do the dumbest thing. I reach my arm out the window and shake hands with him. He could have torn my arm off but he didn’t.

    He says, he’s a mechanic and he’d be glad to take a look if I’d pop the hood. Well, what have I got to lose? I’ll stay in the van and be ready for anything. He’s pokin’ around under the hood and then through the opening between the hood and body, I see him place a Glock on the radiator. He says some stuff that’s sounds angry and about that time puts a Simunitions pellet on the windshield where it looked like it would be right between my eyes. Well I shoot back but he’s already moved and we did some shooting and the drill ended. The lesson I learned: You can’t trust strangers. Action beats reaction.

    Actually other than the arm out the window, I don’t see how I could have played it much differently. I stayed in the van with doors locked and windows up. If he’s gonna shoot you, you’re probably gonna get shot. But, I also discovered the very vehicle that protects you, inhibits your movements. OTOH, getting out would probably be worse. Several students tried that, one got stabbed before he could do anything.

    Scenario 7:
    I escaped this one without a shot and saved everyone by the way, but my fellow students decided to stay and fight and came out with literally bloody pellet marks to prove it.

    You walk into a quicky stop and realize a guy has a gun and is threatening the clerk. You’re right behind him and he doesn’t even know you’re there. Customers are standing around in shock. I gather them up and leave. Each of my fellow students, as their time came, decided to engage the threat and when they did the BG and his innocent looking partner shot him. As the instructor described it later in the debriefing, “He’d never seen three guys (one GG and two BGS) standing toe to toe and shooting each other to pieces. Lesson learned: intervention is dangerous. If you get in a gunfight, up close, you're likely gonna get shot. The students that fought assumed if they shot the BG once or twice the gunfight would be over. They hadn’t counted on a backup or the BG not dying instantly, or that cover, distance, and an advantageous position should be used if they were going to engage.
    Last edited by Tangle; September 19th, 2005 at 06:10 PM.

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  3. #2
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    thanks forthe info. Lots of good info to ponder.

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    Wow - enough there to mull over for some while. Thx for the scenarios - I'll excuse the ''Tangle length'' - it was well worth it!
    Don't assume
    That Ron and - ''expect the unexpected'' are my two favorite mantras - tho it is hard to apply them every living minute and if stress is high, easy to let concentration for them lapse.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Yes! Force on force exercises are real eye openers, aren't they?
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
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    Every time I do simunitions training the heart's pumping and the breathing's harder.

    Good scenarios they gave you Tangle.
    USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

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    Chris,
    You know, I meant to put a "Tangle length" warning at the beginning. I was going to modify that "Tangle button" you posted to "Tangle Length" and I forgot.

    "That Ron and - ''expect the unexpected'' are my two favorite mantras - tho it is hard to apply them every living minute and if stress is high, easy to let concentration for them lapse."

    That is so true. It really is hard to apply some things; it just seems to go against our nature. The van one is the one I know I would blow. I'd be like me to get out of the car and greet someone that stopped to help. But it could be the last thing I ever do!

    srfl,
    "Every time I do simunitions training the heart's pumping and the breathing's harder."

    For me, FOF is what I put into them. If I convince myself that the scenario is real and if I get shot, I could die, then I get the heart pounding, breath holding effect, and that's what I want. When I was searching for the BG in "my house", I sensed I was getting breathless and realized I wasn't breathing! At least not regularly. I was very aware that I was consciously pacing my breathing, trying to breath deep, slow breaths.

    I know some approach FOF scenarios as games, but I don't, I do everything I can to convince myself it's real. It makes a difference to me. Sounds like you do that too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Chris,
    (SNIP)
    I know some approach FOF scenarios as games, but I don't, I do everything I can to convince myself it's real. It makes a difference to me. Sounds like you do that too.
    Yes, my approach is that this is "real thing" so time to put my tactical brain on overdrive and solve the problem.....

    ....I still recall one of my FLETC scenarios in which "I serve a subpoena" on someone who loses it after he exits the room. He "shoots" his secretary, I head towards the door to vacate the killing zone (room and hallway), but he is blocking my way, I retreat back into the room, call for "backup" (which is "20 minutes" away....of course) so I start giving him orders to drop the weapon....he doesn't (it figures!) and we start firing on one another. I vaguely recall hitting him in the arm with me still shouting at him to drop your weapon which he does.....I ended up losing my voice for the rest of the day due to my shouts.

    One of my favorite scenarios (using S&W 65's with plugged barrels and blanks) at FLETC was confronting an EDP in a darkened hallway. At the time, FLETC was issuing to the criminal investigator students "D" (or was it "C"?) - cell Mag Lites. I would have no part of that so I carried my own Surefire light 6P. I'm partnered with someone and I'm the contact officer; also, as we go down the hallway, I'm low and to the left and my cover is high and the the right. We agreed before going in that if confronted by a potential threat in a hallway or other chokepoint to challenge them as we gingerly but expeditiously came out the way we came.

    3/4 of the way down the hallway (with us clearing rooms we pass) out comes a HUGE bearded guy. I start issuing commands (show us his hands, etc.) and we start walking back. He kept moving towards us with something black in his hand but partially obscured....I flash the 6P in his eyes and he violently cocks his head back (I had an nice new set of batteries in it )....and he starts complying; shows us that the black object in his hand is a Bible that he refuses to drop and we prone him out. We also order him to move Bible way from him (me figuring it could be a hollowed out Bible with a weapon inside of it....it wasn't).

    The instructors gave us kudos for that one since over 3/4's of the student "shot" the guy.

    My last FOF training was in May....I made it through all the scenarios; but the "cover course" was another story.....I got thoroughly "painted" in that one due to utter frustration....my Sim'd out Sig P228 kept malfunctioning and I kept accidentally exposing a body part....pop....SPLAT....ouch!

    Anyone else has FOF training scenarios to share? They are a great learning experience.
    Last edited by srfl; September 20th, 2005 at 10:03 AM.
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    If you get your mind prepared, it can get very real, can't it?

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    This sounds interesting. What are simunitions and FOF? I've never heard of them but they sound very educating.

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    Joe - Tangle will better answer this but think of it if you will (simplistic answer) as a much more sophisticated version of paintball!

    Simunitions are low power rounds that can be fired from a suitably modified or custom prepared handgun - great care is taken that no confusion can exist between ''real'' ammo and the simunitions, naturally.

    Force on force is essentially as I have always seen it - a reasonably realistic scenario acting out - with two sides and is therefore an adversarial excercize.

    I am sure more details can be added - I have only sketched this out!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    What you said about covers it Chris. When we do the Sims FOF, we are instructed to leave all guns and ammo at one range. Then we drive to another range and are wanded to check for any kind of metal objects.

    We ony have access to the Sims guns and ammo when the instructor hands us a loaded Sims gun. They won't even let us press check them - I think a press check might mess up the Sims round.

    And we have upper body "armor" full helmets with glasses under the helmet which has a clear protective shield also. And no intentional heads shots (I omitted "shots" in the original sentence, they do want heads, they just don't want them shot) are allowed.
    Last edited by Tangle; September 20th, 2005 at 01:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe/OH
    This sounds interesting. What are simunitions and FOF? I've never heard of them but they sound very educating.
    Sims are for agencies and rich folks (I understand they don't sell to civilians). We poor folks make due with airsoft.

    FOF is a shooting exercise where the targets shoot back. It's where you find out that just because you're an IPSC grandmaster with a fully tricked out race gun held in a livitation holster that homes in on your hand as you come down on the draw stroke, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to survive a gunfight. It's where you find out what works in reality and what only works in competition.
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    Hopefully the FOF (Force on Force - sounds scary, huh?) scenario depicts something that could happen or has happened in real life. The one's I have been in were designed to make a point, like use cover, don't get in a hurry (to die), call the police and let them handle it, and various other issues. My favorite lesson from FOF scenarios is clearing a house/building by yourself is just about suicide and it doesn't matter how tactical you are.

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    Sounds neat. We have recently been using airsoft pistols to 'train' and I do admit, it sometimes turns into a game. But we try to take it seriously for the training part. Disarming drills from surrender is especially educational as well as having a guy attack with a knife from 21 feet and trying to respond. The Simunitions sounds like it would make the encounter much more real as opposed to holding a cheap plastic gun.

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    Well, it is better to use "real" guns if you can. But airsoft should work fine also.

    If you don't take it as "you get no more lives", it will turn into a game. I'll go so far as to say, if your heart isn't pounding and you don't feel like "they" can hear you breathing, you're gaming and relying on the next life to play again.

    In my FOF scenarios, we are not allowed to use HTH, I presume because things could turn into a brawl.

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