What if the BG tries to leave nicely?

This is a discussion on What if the BG tries to leave nicely? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MattLarson Frankly, I wonder how many of the "if he's in my house, I am going to shoot him" set have ever ...

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Thread: What if the BG tries to leave nicely?

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Frankly, I wonder how many of the "if he's in my house, I am going to shoot him" set have ever actually seen someone shot.....

    Matt
    I've seen worse...I've seen someone sliced open with a tuna fish can!!! While a sucking chest wound may not be the most pleasant of sights, I'm thinking it's better his than mine or my wifes. I simply refuse to let someone like that just leave. In doing so you willfully turn him loose on society to do it again. The next time he may rape or kill someone or both. I'd hate to have that on my conscience, knowing that I could have prevented it but instead chose to think only of myself. YMMV of course.
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  3. #77
    Member Array Fmr18z's Avatar
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    I simply refuse to let someone like that just leave. In doing so you willfully turn him loose on society to do it again. The next time he may rape or kill someone or both. I'd hate to have that on my conscience, knowing that I could have prevented it but instead chose to think only of myself...
    I didn't mean to steal the thread on this scenario, but after reading the thread and watching the news last night it appeared to be a real-time example of what we are talking about.

    I have to agree with Fast Cloud on his post, I've had too many of my friends die from gunshot wounds or worse, and it takes years to get over it, if you ever do. It's bad enough for some perp to break into your house and take advantage of you or your family, but to let them go and possibly do it again to your family or someone else...I just can't see the logic in that.

  4. #78
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    And if later on it turns out that the intruder is some harmless guy with mental issues, and was never a threat to anyone, how's that gonna be to live with?

    Killing someone because you've decided they might do something to someone else down the road seems pretty shaky to me.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  5. #79
    Member Array Fmr18z's Avatar
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    I think that's a judgment call that only the people involved can make. As I said, we can second guess this situation forever, the facts are the guy broke in did assault the woman and continued to do so until he was shot, if you can live with that, then that's your decision.

  6. #80
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    I was talking about the scenario in the thread - the BG has broken in, been challenged and is evacuating the AO without having committed any other offense.

    It's a bit different if he's interrupted in mid assault - and yeah, that guy gets shot without any debate.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  7. #81
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fmr18z View Post
    I think that's a judgment call that only the people involved can make. As I said, we can second guess this situation forever, the facts are the guy broke in did assault the woman and continued to do so until he was shot, if you can live with that, then that's your decision.
    Agreed, it might be tough to live with, but just about as tough if I needlessly shot a harmless guy with mental problems. Not an easy call.

    Ron
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  8. #82
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    And if later on it turns out that the intruder is some harmless guy with mental issues, and was never a threat to anyone, how's that gonna be to live with?

    Killing someone because you've decided they might do something to someone else down the road seems pretty shaky to me.

    Matt
    The first sentence...not too easy...but at least I'll be able to live with it. It's better than being dead because I didn't invite him to lie on the couch to determine his mental state. Also, the second word of your sentence is if. That's kind of like the might in the second sentence.

    The second sentence...There's nothing shaky at all about it legally if he's in my house. Yes, later on he could have very well turned out to be a escapee from the loony bin, but he could just as easily turn out to be the next Richard Rimerez. Better to be safe than sorry...as someone else put it. Eternity is a long time to be wrong. A home invasion is the wrong time to be squeamish, IMO.
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  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Agreed, it might be tough to live with, but just about as tough if I needlessly shot a harmless guy with mental problems. Not an easy call.

    Ron
    I submit that it is a pretty easy call - the guy is trying to leave and is, in the scenario presented in the opening post, not a threat.

    If he gets out the door, you're not going to shoot him as he runs down the sidewalk on the theory that he might someday hurt someone else, right?

    So why would his being headed for the door and not being a threat be any different than his having gotten out the door and not being a threat?

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Well, to put as simply as I can, If I catch someone in my home, he will not have time to try to leave. I will not have a discussion with him. He will comply or he will be carried out. Either way I can live with my decision.
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    If he gets out the door, you're not going to shoot him as he runs down the sidewalk on the theory that he might someday hurt someone else, right?

    So why would his being headed for the door ... be any different ...?
    Opportunity (A.O.J.), pure and simple. It's different as night and day, in terms of the criminal's ability to put me in his crosshairs due to a wall and locked door being between us.

    One question: who says he's trying to leave? The felon? The one who's just been caught with his deadly presence in my home? He's being truthful about that, right? To the degree I should risk my family (in the next room) based on what he says??

    Once he's gone and beyond the closed door, he has somewhat less opportunity to be a threat. Of course, even then there are no guarantees, since all he needs to do is pull a gun and begin shooting through the outside wall into the house. Any monkey can do that. A monkey that's bummed he just lost the first salvo is absolutely capable of firing a couple rounds through a door or wall.

    One cannot possibly know that subterfuge is a failing of this particular criminal. It would be naive in the extreme to accept on face value a criminal's stated "desire" to leave as being the end-all statement on the matter.

    The fact he's in the house at all indicates that he doesn't value you or your things very highly. Who's to say that he draws the line at verbal statements of complying with your commands? Who's to say that he won't, at the critical moment, simply turn right around and shoot you ... once you've dropped your guard and begun to allow him the leeway to exit? Not you. Not me. Certainly not a proven felon caught in the act.

    These two distinctly separate outcomes (he's exiting and going through the doorway; he's exiting and not yet to the doorway) are, frankly, beyond my powers to distinguish, in terms of the relative likelihood to produce "false" moves in the next moment.

    "False" moves can occur at any point in the continuum, between his indicating apparent intent to leave and his actual departure. It's why we use the terms manifest intent and show me the money. Until the criminal is well and gone, or well and truly hogtied to await arrival of the police, there are no guarantees.
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  12. #86
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    Last time I checked I don't think you can kill somebody for a crime that you think they might possibly commit at some other future point in time.

    Also killing somebody that you think might go out and get his buddies and come back is not going to fly too very well either.

    Just remember that there will always be a crime scene investigation and they very likely will be able to determine if the BG hit the carpet with his arms extended up in a surrender posture.

    State laws regarding the justified use of deadly force do vary across the country and it's always good advice to remind members to review their home state laws pertaining to the use of deadly force.

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    With your wife's jewelry in his pocket?

    Jewelry can be replaced, that's what insurance is for.

  14. #88
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    Following the scenario.

    Refuse to give away strategy. Dadgum prosecutors are too crafty now days. They might figure out how I did it from my internet posts and then I would be in trouble.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
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  15. #89
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    I would at least follow him out and keep him in my sights. That is if his way out is not comming in my direction. Get his plate number...etc. How do you know he is not going to his vehicle to grab a weapon, or grabbing a buddy waiting outside and baiting you. There are tons of varibles in this situation to consider.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye72 View Post
    Well, to put as simply as I can, If I catch someone in my home, he will not have time to try to leave. I will not have a discussion with him. He will comply or he will be carried out. Either way I can live with my decision.
    What he said
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