March 21st, 2008 11:46 AM
Yes, BGs do call the cops and this has been reported in real world happening news multiples of times.
Originally Posted by exactlymypoint
Further do not assume that all who might trespass against you have rap sheets at all muchless ones that are long, or for that matter outstanding warrants.
A citizen may find themselves in a position to draw their weapon for very many reasons and not just by bandits in black wearing kerchiefs across their face.
Interactions in parking lots with crazy people and road ragers. Trips to the public park with your family to get run up on by punk teens or cavemen who might have an eye for your wifes comeliness.
Out their mind sports fans at sporting events and school events on public fields who go postal because your kids team or even your kid beat their kids team or their kid.
The list of possibilities goes on and on and yes the 'BG' does dial 911 to make report claims. As much is not unheard of.
Dial 911 on your own as soon as at all possible to make your report, even if it is an attempted mugging in an alley where no one saw anything but you and the mugger(s).
Not to do so is a gamble.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
March 21st, 2008 12:04 PM
A similiar situation happened to a buddy of mine.
Originally Posted by Thumper
He was drinking one night, talking on ARFCOM when his ex wife started yelling at him. He basically told her off. Never touched her. He went back to the internet and his Cell phone rang. It was a Sgt from the local PD saying they had word he was in an argument with his EX. She had a cell phone while he was yelling, called her friend who was a cop and he called somebody on duty to report it. The Sgt said can I talk to you about it. He said NO and hung up.
Phone rang about 2 minutes later same cop. He said well we are going to come and talk to you. The only problem they didn't know where he was since he had just moved and hadn't changed his address. Infact he left his parents house who a few minutes later house was raided because they thought he was there.
He was upset and said fine I'll meet somebody at the Taco Bell.
Police said fine.
Police called him back and said we understand you have guns/knives please don't bring them. He said fine I'll even take the strings out of my boots. He was on his way to Taco bell when the same cop called him agains and said look we don't want to meet you at Taco bell we want you to go to this small church parkign lot down the street. He said Okay fine if you just want to talk I'll see you there in the parking lot since it was late he didn't want to make a scene. When he pulled up in the parking lot he saw guys hiding behind bushes and two squad cars. He hopped out of his car and while before he could say wheres sgt so and so 3-5 guys fully decked out with MP-5's had him on the ground eating pavement saying if he moved they would tase him. He had had like 3-4 beers. They took him to a physch ward where the Dr. Relased him. He was pretty pissed all because somebody gave some bad info.
ďAre you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the roomĒ?--Chuck Swindoll
Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!
March 21st, 2008 03:30 PM
The event is judged on the elements of the INCIDENT. Contrary to popular believe, who calls first doesn't mean a hill of beans. Nor does the criminal history because it can not be introduced into a court case except under limited circumstances. The case is judged on the evidence at hand. That will be the statement of the two involved parties, any witnesses to the event, physical evident and in today's world a security camera recording. While the call might initiate a response, it won't result in a criminal charge unless probable cause to believe that a criminal act has been committed. A phone call is not close to justifying anything to that level.
So the police find out I am a licensed permit holder with no criminal record. And they find the BG has a rap sheet going back to his childhood.
However, the "victim" is always free to sign a charge and have the courts determine is there is probable cause to move forward. Lacking any evidence, I don't see it going anywhere.
Richard Scalzo, Capt.
March 22nd, 2008 06:21 AM
The decision making chain of command starts with the LEO on scene. I do not remember ANYTHING in any of the laws that I have read that state that a LEO is required to make an arrest/issue a citation for an offense. It is all discretionary - just like traffic violations, LEOs are not required to issue a ticket. If the LEO feels like a stern dressing down will suffice, then so be it.
Having said that,
1. LEO - Arrest/Issue citation, Yes or No
2. DA - Charge, Yes or No
3. Grand Jury (If it is that bad)
4. Judge - first appearance
6. Appeals court (you really up)
So, in this scenario, seasoned LEO, gets the intel, makes a decision, gives you a walk.
Rookie, roll the dice or ask the magic 8 ball
Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
See also Sheep
March 22nd, 2008 01:35 PM
My carry permit instructor told us to always carry a phone in addition to our gun, and told us this story to help explain why it's so important:
Fred (permit holder and friend of instructor) is driving his car out of a parking structure, minding his own business. Jim (who has a rap sheet full of assaults, and is pretty much just a dirtbag in general) pulls up behind him in his pickup. Jim decides Fred is going too slow, so he rams Fred's car from behind, which causes Fred's car to slide sideways in the parking structure exit ramp, and it becomes wedged between a concrete barrier and Jim's pickup.
Jim decides that he's going to go work Fred over, so he exits his pickup and runs over to Fred's car. Fred draws down on Jim (we weren't told if Fred exited his vehicle beforehand); Jim realizes he has chosen the wrong victim, scurries back to his truck, and makes a quick exit in the other direction.
Fred is extremely shaken up by the incident, and just wants to get home. He decides to wait until he gets home before he calls the police; after all, he lives just across town. However, he is surrounded by cops while waiting at a red light just a few blocks away from the parking ramp- Jim had called 911 and reported Fred as a "man with a gun", probably out of spite. Fred is charged, loses his permit and weapon, and goes to jail. He is cleared of all wrongdoing a few years later, but spends $25,000 on legal fees.
Lesson: always be the first to call it in.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...
March 22nd, 2008 04:29 PM
I believe this exact situation happened in PA just over a year ago . The permit holder was arrested and charged , Had his firearms removed . He eventually was clerared from what i remember , But i can only imagine the cost and the aggravation .
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
My opinion is , The one who calls 911 is considered the victim , Always .
Anyone make a IWB holster for my AR ??
March 23rd, 2008 01:48 PM
I wasn't going to share this story at first, since it's a little convoluted, but I think it's pretty important and very relevant to the thread.
I was involved in a road rage incident, many years ago, during which someone jumped out of his pickup and rushed my car at a red light (a Z28 convertible with the top down). He was apparently angry because I had passed him a few miles before the red light, but I'm not sure what set him off. My friend was in the front seat, and his young son was riding in the back. I managed to drive away, but the guy got back into his truck and gave chase. I ditched him right away, but he got my plate number and called me in as a reckless driver. There was a line of about 15 squad cars waiting for me when I got home. I was scared out of my mind, because I was sure I was going to jail.
Fortunately, the guy that rushed me made the mistake of blabbering to the cops, and actually told them what he had done. I know he ended up getting in some trouble, because they took a signed statement from me right there on the side of the road. I never heard what the final outcome was, but I was never charged with any offense.
Back then, I did not trust the authorities, because I grew up in a small town full of bored cops that would pull you (a young person) over at the drop of a hat, for any reason they could come up with (or sometimes none at all). I actually had one particularly aggressive sheriff's deputy tell me that he was going to arrest me and take me to jail for having a glasspack muffler on my car, along with the cashier at the auto parts store who sold it to me. The last thing I would do in any situation would be to actually call the police, because I felt it would just be bringing more trouble on myself.
That being said, you can see why I feel it's so important of being the first to call 911, based on that experience. If I had been a permit holder that day, if the car that was behind me at that red light was just a little bit closer so as to block my escape, if the Pickup Man had actually gotten into my car (pretty easy to jump into a ragtop when the top is down), I could have legally shot him dead. But since I ran, and he called 911 first, I was considered enough of a suspect to send most of the local police department to my house to wait for me, even though he had told the officers that he was the aggressor. And imagine what would have happened if I had presented a weapon. I shudder at the thought.
Like my instructor told us, if you carry a gun, carry a phone. And always, always be the first to dial 911.
The other thing that comes to mind, though it's a little off topic, is the saying anyone, anywhere, at any time. The day of that incident was warm and sunny, and I was giving my friend and his son a lift home. The area was semi-rural, and Pickup Man was an ordinary, middle-age looking guy driving a nice, late model Ford 1/2 ton 4x4, just like everyone else had. The last thing I would have expected was for something like that to happen, and I still don't know what it was that actually set the guy off in the first place. Food for thought.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...
March 29th, 2008 08:08 PM
March 29th, 2008 09:36 PM
Calling 911 after drawing your firearm
ALWAYS!!!! The BG didn't make any money off you, so he is still looking for an easy victim.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
March 30th, 2008 05:58 AM
seems to me you have dealt with the Same SA police officer I have, They are not all jerks, but SA has a rather improportionate share it seems. Personally I think its because of manpower shortages, but who knows, What I do know is that if you dont call them YOU are treated like a felon, until proven otherwise.
Originally Posted by JDBraddy
First they tell you call us right away if there is a problem, but if you call them when there is a problem by the time they get there the problem is either gone or your dead, Take any steps to protect yourself and "we told you to call us" Last night I was assualted by a thug in a car, he tried to run me over because I didnt sell him beer, (dob 88) now I know the police cant really do much about it because I didnt get the plate number, but they could have got an officer out there in a reasonable time, by the time the officer arrived it was 50 minutes later.
I basically said I was fine and if the guy came back I would protect myself if I had to, Of course I got the "call us right away if he comes back" speach.
In fairness to the officer what can he do? They did make their presence known on the street for the last two hours the store was open.
Calling the police to report that you drew your handgun makes sense, I would do it again, Last night I didnt draw my weapon because I was too busy dodging the car, I did manage to roll off the hood onto the drivers side, being the stupid thug he was he had his window down, he got a load of OC. (I believe this led to his passive retreat, vs his continued aggression, but I had my hand on my firearm in case he attempted to hit me again, at that point it was not drawn because he was fleeing, SMOKING WILL KILL YOU, I know I have had crud luck when outside smoking)
Had he tried to run me over again he would have got a load of copper jacketed ammo, instead he wisely choose to drive off. I choose to call 911, was put on hold long enough to light a smoke,
Side note folks, if you carry OC do not light a smoke after using it, before you wash your hands very thouroughly.
IF you have to take any action call the police, if for no other reason than to have documented that you were in fear for your life when you took ANY action. It may not be a pleasant situation for you, but it will look a lot better to a jury if you ever need to stand in front of one.
March 30th, 2008 08:02 AM
Here's an interesting one for you........
Lots of "Road Rage" incidents in most all States. When you have them in a State like Texas where a large number of Citizens are CHL holders and armed it gets a bit sticky.........
Also, in Texas, anyone who can legally own a firearm can now carry it in their car (concealed) without any license at all.......
I cannot remember where I read this but here is the short version of it.......
Road Rage Incident, one of the guys is a CHL (you) and armed with a pistol or otherwise has a pistol in the glove box. The other may or may not have a pistol. The incident breaks up without any problems, other than hard feelings on one's part. The non-CHL guy/gal (or no pistol) figures that there is a good chance that you have a Pistol either on you or in the car and so he/she calls the Police and reports the incident, saying "this guy pulled a gun on me while I was only driving along in my car". Giving description of you and your car and probably your license plate number......
Police stop you and the investigation commences. You ask the officer if the person reporting saw your gun. The officer says yes. You tell the officer that he/she should then be able to describe the said gun. The officer questions the other guy/gal and he/she says "yea, it was BIG AND BLACK". You show the officer what you are carrying and it is Stainless Steel! Nuff said....the other guy/gal is arrested for making a false report.
Now..... you had a 50/50 chance here........
I guess if you wanted to carry a Pink gun, you would have a 100% chance of proving the other guy/gal was lying.
March 30th, 2008 08:36 PM
You and me both bro!
Originally Posted by tns0038
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
March 30th, 2008 08:47 PM
Things are not always fair. The LEO's were way out of line in this case. I had a simular experience when someone tried to kick down my door. I'm just glad that the bad guys didn't call the cops. I now see that this can happen to anyone and will call 911 before engaging a bad guy again. I never thought about this happening.
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