Calling 911 after drawing your firearm

Calling 911 after drawing your firearm

This is a discussion on Calling 911 after drawing your firearm within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was reading the thread that had this story in it: Xavier Thoughts: An Encounter At Wal-Mart . In the follow up, he discussed calling ...

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Thread: Calling 911 after drawing your firearm

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Calling 911 after drawing your firearm

    I was reading the thread that had this story in it: Xavier Thoughts: An Encounter At Wal-Mart.

    In the follow up, he discussed calling 911 and being the first person to report the incident. This way he is the complainant. This has been mentioned in other threads.

    Although I think this is a good idea, would the BG ever call 911 and report the incident of someone either brandishing a firearm or trying to rob them? Seriously, if the police arrived, discovered that this guy has a rap sheet as long as his arm, how could you possibly be in trouble? The police cannot be completely oblivious to the obvious. Or what if the BG is wanted on outstanding warrants? He is not going to risk that.

    I am still going to do it, but I just don't think there is going to be a race to the phone to be the first person to call it in.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.


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    It is not so much the BG calling 911 as it is someone else who might have just seen you with your gun out, pointed at some one. You never know who is around and what might have been witnessed. As far as that goes, you never know what is running throough the mind of the BG too.

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    Member Array ZW17's Avatar
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    The person you just brandished a gun to may not be a career criminal with a mile long rap sheet and warrants. It may be a normal person that has snapped and had a bad day.

    I have read of accounts where the BG has called the police and caused major headaches for the CCWer including being taken into custody at gun point, legal fees, lawyer fees, etc....

    I would make it my top priority, after the situation has been rendered safe, to place a call to 911 and ask for assistance. I would NEVER walk away from a "draw down" without a police report to protect myself.
    Why do you own a fire extinguisher when you have the fire department to protect you?

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I am still going to do it, but I just don't think there is going to be a race to the phone to be the first person to call it in.
    OK, you believe what you want, some of us know different.

    When I pull my gun I make a call to the locals. If I'm off duty I will also be doing a Memo to my Supervisors as soon as I get back to work. If I discharge my weapon, even an AD, I will be notifying my Supervisors by telephone and doing a Memo when I get back to work.

    Yes Virginia, it is a "race to the telephone". Badguys know this and they do call. "There I was minding my own business, walking down the street when I stopped to ask a guy what time it was. The crazy Mo'Fo' pulled out this BIG HUUUUUGE handgun and said he was going to shoot me. I ran and called you guys."

    What really happened was, the badguy approached you on the sidewalk, knife at his side and demanded that you give him your wallet. When the local constabulary show up he will of course have ditched the knife and make himself seem as innocent as a newborn baby.

    So, believe what you want, but I know what I will do if I clear leather or discharge a round.

    Biker

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    There's a long thread running on the same general subject here:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-now-what.html
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    OK, you believe what you want, some of us know different.

    So, believe what you want, but I know what I will do if I clear leather or discharge a round.
    Whoa. Hang on to your hat there, partner.

    I am just asking a question to get other points of view. I am a relative newbie to this and what seems obvious to me from an uniformed newbie's POV is quickly enlightened by getting other people's opinions. The first few posts gave me enough info to correct my faulty thinking.
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    If I'm 'interviewed' and have drawn a weapon or not...it's a call to 911. You never know, you might just help the next victim...
    If I have drawn a weapon, the call will be immediate.
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    Member Array Shaughn's Avatar
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    If I draw..I call

    If I shoot...Definitely call

    If I sweep my cover garment aside and place hand on pistol...I call

    If the confrontation goes beyond a certain point even without more than an indications to said party that I am not going quietly into the night, then they break off... I call

    Cell phones are everywhere and there has been enough fruit loops walking into schools, mall, restaurants and shooting that I will promise you that not 1,2 or 3 calls will hit 911, instead it will be dozens and maybe even the parties that caused you to present your weapon.

    Last thing you want is to legitimately use your CCW then due to your failure to call the authorities, even if the encounter ended peacefully, and be charged with brandishing and losing your permit/firearms or heaven forbid something worse and have to spend a fortune in court, defending an action that a simple call to 911 and an accompanying police report could have solved.

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    BGs will indeed call the cops on you. You best make that call. Next to your piece, your best tool is your cell phone.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    BGs will indeed call the cops on you.
    I have seen this assertion often when this subject is discussed. Is there any documentation of a permit holder being arrested because a BG called the police? Or even a witness to the incident?

    The fact is that if you call police and admit drawing a firerm on another person you are incriminating yourself on a charge of aggravated assault.

    Let's see. A BG threatens my life in order to rob me. A draw my weapon and he breaks off the attack and runs. He calls the police? Right... So the police find out I am a licensed permit holder with no criminal record. And they find the BG has a rap sheet going back to his childhood. And people here think because the BG called [first] that I am in danger of being charged with aggravated assault? The police taking the word of a BG versus a law aiding citizen? Nonsense.

    I think it would very much be situationally dependent on whether I would call and spend hours with police when the alternative is to simply to go home and thank God I was able to defend myself.

    I want to add that there is no justification defense for committing aggravated assault in Arizona. There is currently a law proposed to make the drawing of a weapon for self defense to be justifiable. Currently, it is a felony. Even if it seems right to call police, the fact is that [in Arizona] you committed a felony. Food for thought.

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    I agree that it doesn't matter who calls first, but it would strengthen your case if you called ASAP.

    The incident I heard about was related to me by my CCW instructor; it happened on the third level of a parking garage.

    Three BGs who were dressed like, well BGs, approached a single male as he was walking to his car.

    According to the victim, the BGs demanded his money. Although they showed no weapons, the victim was scared (With the odds of 3:1 anyone would be afraid). The victim drew his piece and the BGs immediately fled.

    Seems the BGs run smack into a LEO as they were racing from the parking garage. The LEO detained the BGs who quickly started 'splainin' that they had merely asked some dude for some money when he pulled a gun on them. The LEO then stopped the victim as he was leaving the parking lot. All were escorted downtown to sort it out.

    Everything that the victim said was credible and while the BGs really looked like gang bangers, they had no criminal records and were found with no Weapons.

    Each file a complaint; the BGs for aggravated assault and the victim for attempted robbery. They're all going to court.

    The LEOs wondered why the victim had not called the police.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    Whoa. Hang on to your hat there, partner.

    I am just asking a question to get other points of view. I am a relative newbie to this and what seems obvious to me from an uniformed newbie's POV is quickly enlightened by getting other people's opinions. The first few posts gave me enough info to correct my faulty thinking.

    OK, didn't mean to bite your head off.

    I just want to make it very clear that it is indeed a "race to the phone" when it comes to badguys and good guys. Most LEO's are good about sorting the wheat from the chaff so to speak in regards to finding out the truth, but don't get the Badge with a Pencil that never had an original thought.

    That sort will just decide to arrest you and take the badguy's complaint. It's easier that way. Then you can "sort it out in court". Some people accuse me of never having an original thought, but I'm very good at what I do.

    Biker

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I have seen this assertion often when this subject is discussed. Is there any documentation of a permit holder being arrested because a BG called the police? Or even a witness to the incident?

    The fact is that if you call police and admit drawing a firerm on another person you are incriminating yourself on a charge of aggravated assault.

    Let's see. A BG threatens my life in order to rob me. A draw my weapon and he breaks off the attack and runs. He calls the police? Right... So the police find out I am a licensed permit holder with no criminal record. And they find the BG has a rap sheet going back to his childhood. And people here think because the BG called [first] that I am in danger of being charged with aggravated assault? The police taking the word of a BG versus a law aiding citizen? Nonsense.

    I think it would very much be situationally dependent on whether I would call and spend hours with police when the alternative is to simply to go home and thank God I was able to defend myself.

    I want to add that there is no justification defense for committing aggravated assault in Arizona. There is currently a law proposed to make the drawing of a weapon for self defense to be justifiable. Currently, it is a felony. Even if it seems right to call police, the fact is that [in Arizona] you committed a felony. Food for thought.
    I would say that the risks of not calling outweigh the time spent explaining to the LEO why you "Brandished". You have CC permit, therefore no criminal history, and one of the most law abiding citizens in your state. A few hours talking with the LEOs is better than risking a day with the LEOs and your lawyer after they track you down (criminals oddly enough have an eye and memory for detail).

    The only bad outcome I can see is if the responding officer is very anti citizen carry.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I would say that the risks of not calling outweigh the time spent explaining to the LEO why you "Brandished". You have CC permit, therefore no criminal history, and one of the most law abiding citizens in your state. A few hours talking with the LEOs is better than risking a day with the LEOs and your lawyer after they track you down (criminals oddly enough have an eye and memory for detail).

    The only bad outcome I can see is if the responding officer is very anti citizen carry.
    I certainly see the merits of calling. The problem is that it is a felony. In fact, under current Arizona law, even if you are justified to shoot the BG and stop him with a bullet, you are still guilty of aggravated assault because before you shot him you pulled your gun and made him fear for his life.

    In the DC search thread someone opined that if a police officer sees a crime he must arrest. Uphold the law and all. How is this different? You call the police and admit you committed aggravated assault and now the police have the discretion to let you go?

    Once we have a law that provides for a defense of justification for pointing your weapon at someone then I would certainly lean more to calling. Now, if no one is injured, I think I'm going home.

    The antis are against the proposed law because they imagine (perhaps rightly) that there will more instances of people drawing their weapon claiming there was a threat. It renders virtually every aggravated assault arrest a problem for the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    This is where one would call several of the local DAs and Police to get more info on the issue.

    Better yet would be a lawyer if one had one on retainer for armed self defense possibilities.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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