Lethal force to prevent child abduction?

This is a discussion on Lethal force to prevent child abduction? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MikeGoob but if you KNEW the child was being abducted (your own kid etc) could you use lethal force? If the abductor ...

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Thread: Lethal force to prevent child abduction?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGoob View Post
    but if you KNEW the child was being abducted (your own kid etc) could you use lethal force?

    If the abductor was unarmed?
    Absolutely. Even in NY lethal force is allowed to stop a forcible rape or kidnapping. The sad truth is once a child is abducted the odds are slim that they will ever be found alive. Kidnapping for ransom is non-existent thanks to the success of the FBI in going after such crimes. If a child is taken today in something besides a custody fight it is for either sexual abuse and murder or just murder.

    As soon as you can prove you know this (keeping an article to that effect handy or web article saved would help) then it is information you knew that affected your judgment at the time and can be revealed to a jury should you be tried. (Similar reason I have books talking about the failure of rounds to stop an aggressor without a head shot.)

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  3. #47
    Member Array wyldman's Avatar
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    Agree with F350.
    it's one of the major reasons I carry in the first place.
    I will take a round or be happy to return several when it involves my kids.

  4. #48
    Member Array NDN-MAN's Avatar
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    I only know of three reasons to abduct a child.
    1) money = $$
    2) power = you have the power to change a vote or block a jury
    3) perverts = sick freaks who want a child

    I am not rich or powerfull. So anyone trying to take my kids falls into "perverts"
    It's not the bow or the arrow It's the NDN

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    If my child were being abducted I really wouldn't care what the law said.
    my thoughts excatly. nowing that my son is safe and i
    have to go to prison,so be it.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  6. #50
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    If someone tries to take my son, I will use all means I have aviable to stop them.

    I will shoot, stab, run over, bite, kick, hit, stomp, do what ever it takes to prevent them from getting my son.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  7. #51
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    I will protect my kids,G/kids with my life. But I prefer that it is his and at 63 years what can they realy do to me when I put several .45's inhis head.
    God Bless our troops,Pass the ammo
    carry guns,g30,g39
    1911,colt defender 90 / .45
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    my avater is part of the reason i feel the way i do.

  8. #52
    Member Array SevenSix9ine's Avatar
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    If someone tried to take my son, after the point I ran out of ammo you better believe the pistol whoopin' would begin.

    -Alex
    -Never insult a man you are not prepared to fight, and never fight a man you are not prepared to kill.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    We are good to go in TX:

    PC §9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.

    (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under
    Section 9.31;

    (2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have
    retreated; and

    (3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly
    force is immediately necessary:

    (A) to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use
    of unlawful deadly force; or

    (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated
    kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault,
    robbery, or aggravated robbery.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    I don't see how a reasonable jury would convict a Mother or Father of using lethal force against somebody who protecting their child. Every situation is differn't but if saw somebody abducting future kids I'll be having. I'm going to be aiming high!!!!!!!
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    I don't see how a reasonable jury would convict a Mother or Father of using lethal force against somebody who protecting their child. Every situation is differn't but if saw somebody abducting future kids I'll be having. I'm going to be aiming high!!!!!!!
    To be honest, I would be scared of the jury that did. Now as you stated there are always circumstances, like if while attempting to prevent an abduction you yell "I'm gonna kill you..." then that can appear to be pre-meditated.

    But even if you were to prevent an abduction of someone other than your own kids, you are still defending the defenseless, and that goes to the core of what America is/was/should be.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
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  12. #56
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    hmm kid getting kidnapped... go watch man on fire but hopefully with less dieing in the primary role
    Last edited by FknRa; March 26th, 2008 at 04:07 PM. Reason: speeling
    To those that paid for my freedom,
    I WILL NEVER FORGET.

    As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPR View Post
    The attacker being unarmed really doesn't mean much when you're considering the safety of the child. The disparity of force "capability" between an adult and a child should be obvious. That being said, I remember reading somewhere that the average child killed by an abductor has something like 24 hours, or 48 hours to live. Time is absolutely critical when it comes to stopping them -- hence the nationwide amber alert systems.

    Your worst case scenario would be that you "impede" someone who has a right to take the child. In that case, such a person is likely to respond favorably (from your perspective) to looking down the barrel of a gun and cooperate.

    Having never seen an abduction, I expect it would be obvious.
    In most states which have Castle Doctrine, it becomes null and void when a person, who is a parent or legal guardian, enters your Castle to retrieve their child.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGoob View Post
    Talk on the radio brought up in my mind a situation that I didnt know right away how to resolve: Can you use lethal force to prevent a child from being abducted? Of course it might not be clear if something is a true abduction if you dont know the child--it could be horseplay or a parent dealing with an unruly kid, but if you KNEW the child was being abducted (your own kid etc) could you use lethal force?

    If the abductor was unarmed?
    In NC--yes. But the what if's you mentioned can get you in big problems. I would say, you'd better know the child and his entire extended family before you do.

  15. #59
    Member Array Tindjin's Avatar
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    In NM we have the "in defense of others" in our code. Someone being abducted would fit into "reasonable threat of GBH or Death". And if it was one of my family members I would make sure to have their hearing checked from the sound of my H&K going off multiple times.

  16. #60
    Member Array Lange's Avatar
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    I'm thinking deadly force isn't neccessary. People who come after children are usually bigger, stronger, etc...so the neccessity to carry a weapon to abduct them isn't really there for them. Tell them to back down, draw the weapon, they should, if they are smart, stop and leave.

    And secondly, if they're abducting a child, I'm assuming they are close range...what's the danger of hitting the kid?

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