This is a discussion on Lethal force to prevent child abduction? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; CHILD ABDUCTION FALLS UNDER KIDNAPPING WHICH IS A (FEDERAL ) FELONY IN ANY PART OF TH USA IF YOU ARE WITNESSING THIS TAKEN PLACE YOU ...
CHILD ABDUCTION FALLS UNDER KIDNAPPING WHICH IS A (FEDERAL ) FELONY IN ANY PART OF TH USA IF YOU ARE WITNESSING THIS TAKEN PLACE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE DEADLEY FORCE IF NEEDED TO PROTECT THE CHILD FROM ABDUCTION AND I DONT THINK THAT ANY JURY OR COURT WOULD CONVICT YOU FOR SAVING A CHILDS LIFE IN TODAY'S TIMES WITH ALL OF THE SEXUAL PREDATORS GOING ON EVERY DAY IN THIS COUNTRY OF OURS
That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?
I don't have kids, but if I did...
Armed/unarmed, threatening/nonthreatening, if someone is kidnapping my child, they will not live to see the next hour, regardless of any laws.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
If someone is trying to abduct my granddaughter, I will use all necessary force including lethal force to stop it. Period!
If I witness what appears to be a child abduction of a kid I do not know, there will be a more measured response. I will play it as I see it, but I am all too aware of what happens to children abducted by predators.
I'd rather take an ass chewing from an angered parent for mistaking what appeared to be a good impression of an abduction at the time than to watch the manhunt and anguish play out on the news over the next few weeks, months or years as a result of something I could have prevented.
If I got into legal trouble, I would have to bring up John Cooey & Jessica Lundsford, and hope for the best at trial.
Besides, the charges against me would more than likely be for something along the lines of assault rather than manslaughter.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
Do I fear for the child's life?
Then smoke the BG.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.
You may have a few who are just overgrown bullies who will back down when confronted, but more than likely you are going to face a very dangerous person.
Abductors are already showing their true aggressive nature by snatching someone from public view. They don't fear the general public and in many cases they are more than ready and willing to fight with whoever may step in their way. For whatever reason--because they are angry, feel justified in their snatch, are that desperate, or just that arrogant--they are going to flaunt their crime before the whole world and some of them get a real sick pleasure out of knowing that no one is stopping them. It emboldens them and makes them very confrontational.
And as to the safety of the child, if you confront an abductor and corner him (or her) you may be giving him no other choice than to hurt the child earlier or threaten to hurt the child as a means of escape.
So you corner an abductor and tell him to let the child go. Suddenly he changes his grip from around the child's waist to his neck and says that if you don't get away he'll snap the child's neck. You think he won't do it? As stated, most children who aren't found within 48 hours after an abduction are presumed dead. He's more than likely going to kill the child anyway, this way it's just a little early, but now he's giving you the choice, kill the child now, in front of you, or let him go to probably kill the child later.
It was VERY clear to me that the man who abducted me VERY MUCH enjoyed taking me from the seat of publicity. His whole body WANTED confrontation and he would have LOVED to see anyone try to stop him and still take me anyway. He was VERY cocky and arrogant and didn't give a crap for what the other people around us thought as he dragged me from that restaurant. He even slammed me up against the wall just outside the front door talking to me and threatening me for at least one whole minute before continuing.
He didn't run out of the building. He walked deliberately, dragging me with him like a toy. He didn't even hurry when he got me in the van. It was like he WANTED someone to try to stop him.
He was not armed. He had no weapons to speak of on his person (which of course, no one would have known) but being with him for the hours afterward and seeing his attitude and his arrogance and his self opinion, I have no doubt that he would have gladly taken on anyone who tried to stop him. It would have been a rush. My defiance is what set him off in the first place. It fed him and his rage. Someone standing up to him would have made him more violent. In turn he would have taken that out on me.
I'm not saying that no one should have stood up to him. What I'm saying is that if someone were to have stood up to him it would have been best for me and for the situation if they did it quickly and violently before he had time to let the rush build and respond. I'm not even saying they should have shot him (per say) as long as they were ready to do battle with a bull. I'm saying that confronting him would have unleashed his fury (which he very much was keeping in check at that time (believe it or not)) and whoever confronted him probably would have gotten a LOT more than they were asking for. He more than likely would have even sneered at a gun. I doubt he would have even backed down for the police. The only thing that would have stopped him was force.. and a lot of it. And I guarantee that his last act on this earth would have been to try to hurt me as much as possible.
After all, that was his ultimate goal.
Not many people get to spend time with an abductor while he is committing his crime and live to tell about it when they are not accomplices.
Knowing, first hand, my abductor, I will NEVER just assume someone abducting ANY child is a bully who will back down when confronted. And I will certainly ALWAYS respectfully fear them and what drives them.
The passion (misplaced as it may be) that drives a person to do something as bold and heinous as abduction is something to be feared in and of itself. He doesn't see right or wrong. He doesn't see danger or fear. He sees his mark and that's it. He is so driven by his goal that he will stop at NOTHING (not even a kindly citizen) to get what he want.
In some of these people that drive has been building for days, weeks, months, maybe even years and anyone stepping between them and what they want better well be cautioned that this is a dangerous individual who isn't just going to give up when they've come so close to their twisted victory.
As for myself? I will never be able to view a predator as anything less than a vicious felon who needs to be stopped quickly and before they can carry out any harm to the child. If they drop the child and the child is recovered and a safe distance away then we can negotiate, but if that child is still in their hands I'm not giving them the chance to take that one with them.
Very good post, thank you for sharing your experience. It will certainly provide some insight to anyone who may encounter this very scenario.
Incredible insights, Limatunes, and who can say when such knowledge will be useful to one of us. I thank you for sharing (and for your being able to share) this with us.
But I can't help shuddering when I think about how you came to know these things.
In real world terms, this means he gets shot to the ground with no further debate, discussion or warning.
Note that this does not mean drawing on the adult - but it means a verbal challenge and reacting as the situation develops. It may mean calling the police, it may mean use of force. Hopefully not, but sometimes doing the right thing means not doing the easy thing.
Thanks for sharing your insight with us, Lima.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
Learning to shoot again : Starting Over
If in doubt and the kid is scared, (before I say this I am against warning shots) shooting out the two near tires would slow the car down, and deliver a clear message "The next shot is for you". The Charge if any would be discharging a fire arm and Damage to property. Shooting near the kid unless you were already on top of the guy and had a clear shot is a really dangerous thing. If there are any prosecutors or lawyers I am curious about my opinion?
Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser
You do not work for them, they work for you.
All I can say is: If it were my one of my children, God have mercy on his soul cuz I ain't gonna!!! Can I get an Amen my brothers and sisters!!
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.