Carrying with 6+0

This is a discussion on Carrying with 6+0 within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am currently waiting delivery of a Ruger LCP (I'm figuring a months-long wait). I have a question, and I'm not sure this is the ...

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Thread: Carrying with 6+0

  1. #1
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Carrying with 6+0

    I am currently waiting delivery of a Ruger LCP (I'm figuring a months-long wait). I have a question, and I'm not sure this is the proper forum or not, and if it's not, could a mod please move this for me.

    I have always been nervous about carrying a live round under the hammer, even with the safety engaged. As a matter of fact, when I carry my S&W .357 mag revolver while hunting, I only load it with 5 and leave the cylinder under the hammer empty. (If I can't hit a deer with 5 shots I may as well go home).

    I'm wondering how much time is "wasted" by cocking the weapon after drawing, and if it really makes a that much of a difference to keep it cocked and locked?
    Last edited by cl00bie; March 29th, 2008 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Forgot to designate "hunting".
    -Tony

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    You've opened a can of worms on this one.

    I say carry how you are comfortable, and practice how you carry. If you think that under a heightened stress situation you will absolutely not forget that you have 1 or more extra steps to go through, and you feel comfortable with the time given up, then by all means, do it.

    But if you aren't comforable with one in the chamber, than by all means, don't carry with one in the chamber. Maybe keep the chamber empty, but with it cocked for a while. If it ever goes click, you will know that your suspicion was correct. That's how I got over the weird feeling of carrying a ready gun. It never went click, and I became more and more comfortable.

    I carry with one in the chamber. I also use a holster that covers the trigger guard. For me, I feel comfortable knowing if I don't pull the trigger it won't go bang, and if I need it to go bang, all I have to do is pull the trigger. YMMV.
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    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    Doesn't make sense to me. Your first safety is your brain, your second is your trigger finger. Get into good habits with gun safety & they will become second nature.

    EDITED TO ADD: I'm not knocking anyone's decision, just stating what works & makes sense to me.

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    I would not carry a revolver cocked, but I would carry it with a full cylinder, if it held 6, I would load 6. Cocked and locked refers to autos that have a safety on them, such as the 1911 type that have exposed hammers I believe.

    The LCP you have ordered, well load the magazine and the chamber, it has a long and stiff trigger pull, that's the way I would carry, but YMMV.


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    Oh no...

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    I was like you. When I first started carrying I did so with the chamber empty. But there are sooooooo many situations where you will not have time to chamber a round, may not have a free hand/arm to chamber a round or have to make a fast first shot that I started carrying with one in the chamber.

    There a bunches of threads on this forum that discuss this issue. You should review them. But, like me when I first started carrying, you have to go with what you are comfortable with. Better to carry with an unloaded chamber than not to carry at all. But I suspect, over time, you will start carrying with one in the chamber.
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    Learn and understand how your gun works, then carry it.
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    However you feel safe is how you should carry. My primary and secondary carry guns are both decocker models and I carry them at the half cock position, both are completely safe to carry in that position. Most if not all modern firearms are designed that if the hammer drops without the trigger being pulled they will not allow the firing pin to contact the round. Same holds true with revolvers. Most have a transfer bar system of some sorts. If the trigger is not pulled the transfer bar stays down and will not allow the hammer to strike the firing pin. This is assuming the weapon is in good working order and functioning properly. If not you should not be carrying it anyways.

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    If your .357 was an old style, single-action army (old west) type revolver, carrying five rounds with none under the hammer was a standard safety precaution that only applies to that type of revolver. These originally had no safety devices to prevent the gun from discharging if it fell to the ground and landed on the hammer. That is not true of modern double-action revolvers. Most manufacturers have incorporated safety features that will allow you to now carry with all chambers loaded. However, with either revolver, the normal action to put the gun in use, be it cocking the single-action or simply pulling the trigger on the double-action revolver brings a loaded chamber into position. In both cases it can be accomplished using only one hand.

    A semi-auto pistol is a different animal entirely. In order to bring an auto pistol into action, you would first have to pull the slide back and release to cock the weapon and charge the chamber with a live round. Sometimes, you don't have the luxury of the required added time, or may not be able to use both hands, which is a necessity for this operation. That is why most of us who carry an auto-pistol carry with a round in the chamber. Of course, we also understand the operation of the pistol and have a proper holster to protect the trigger and prevent negligent discharges from occurring. Training, study of tactics and reading your gun's owner's manual will help you with this. If you ever need to use the gun, you will most likely need it in a hurry. Telling your attacker, "Pardon me a moment while I whip this thing out," most likely will not be an option.
    Cordially,
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I just hope that in a stress situation when you're hands are sweaty and you're scared poopless you can draw and rack your slide without jamming the gun,cause if for some reason the round jams you will probably be dead before you can clear it.At least i know i got at least one good one coming out of the holster without worrying if i got enough time to draw chamber a round and engage
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    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Learn and understand how your gun works, then carry it.
    +1.

    Modern firearms cannot and will not fire unless the trigger is fully depressed. If the great Jeff Cooper's 4 rules of firearms are followed, there is zero chance for a negligent discharge.

    This is just my opinion, but I would never carry a gun that wasn't absolutely ready-to-rock. If I need that gun, the need is urgent and severe. I don't want to take the time to rack the slide. That's part of why I like the 1911 platform so much; you can safely carry it cocked & locked.

    Especially with revolvers though, Rugers have the strike plate and S&W's have the transfer bar, they can't go off if dropped or even if you whack the hammer with a mallet.

    As Sixto suggested, really study your weapon, gain confidence in the fact that cocked & locked carry IS safe with modern guns, and be happy

    Especially with a gun that small, I want all the firepower I can get. Having one less round on tap is a real disadvantage, IMHO. If you're only going to have 6, you might as well carry a little .38 snubby.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    I'm wondering how much time is "wasted" by cocking the weapon after drawing ...
    The amount of time wasted varies by person. How long it takes you to chamber a round and fire it will depend on you. Whether it's safe to carry that way (either way) will depend on the design of your gun and what circumstances you're faced with while carrying.

    ... and if it really makes a that much of a difference to keep it cocked and locked?
    If during the time it takes you to chamber a round your life depended on actually having the ability to fire that round, that's how much difference it could make. Whether it will make that much difference will depend on circumstances, of course. Whether you consider that time a waste will depend on you.

    And whether your gun's design will safely support chambered carry, well that depends on the gun.

    Worth it? You've got two options. Decide.

    What I think: Carrying a firearm for defensive purposes that isn't ready for immediate defensive use is a waste, possibly deadly. Pass. Thus, I carry a gun designed to be safely carried with a round chambered, no safeties ... and I carry it that way. YMMV, but this works for me. Then again, I've got a semi-auto pistol. It's designed to work the way it does. As does a 1911.

    In your case, a S&W revolver with a hammer has a standard mode of carry. Generally, most folks load up the cylinder and leave the hammer down. I suppose that loading up 5 (in a 6rd cylinder) with the hammer over the empty works as well. Assuming the revolver isn't a single-action design, then the first pull will cock the hammer for you. But, carrying a loaded revolver with the hammer cocked back, though, holstered that way? Bad juju, that.
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  14. #13
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    When I first started carrying I was apprehensive of having a round in the chamber. I carry a Kahr P9 so not carrying one in the chamber would be awfully hard to get off a shot. On a post in this forum someone said that I might as well be holding a paperweight if I carried that way. Get a good holster and practice. Realize the weapon will not go off unless you pull the trigger. I always keep my weapon holstered with a round in the chamber. I feel safe that way.

  15. #14
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard
    You've opened a can of worms on this one.
    Hmmm... Looks like this n00b might have stepped in something. Well, it wouldn't be the first time it's ever happened to me. This seems like one of those emotion-laden discussions that seem to happen on every themed board I've joined.

    But I've learned something over the years. When I make a faux pas like this, I sit back, ignore the flames, take the good advice and incorporate it and move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard
    But if you aren't comforable with one in the chamber, than by all means, don't carry with one in the chamber. Maybe keep the chamber empty, but with it cocked for a while. If it ever goes click, you will know that your suspicion was correct. That's how I got over the weird feeling of carrying a ready gun. It never went click, and I became more and more comfortable.
    This is good advice.

    Now that I've embarrassed myself, I'm going to completely throw away any last vestiges of dignity I might have had.

    One of the reasons that I have had concerns, is that I have been practicing lately with a gun I bought on a whim many years ago. A.. ummm... Jennings J-22.

    When I bought it, it was because it looked like it was fun to shoot. But I never had a range membership, so it languished in my gun safe until about a month ago. I decided to take it to the range and try it out. This little jam-o-matic messed up on about every third shot I took. The first day, I wasn't able to run a whole clip through it without one or two jams, either failure to eject, failure to load or both.

    So I took it off and cleaned it as good as Howie Mandel's hands. While I had the slide off (first time I've ever taken down an automatic) I noticed that the firing pin was pulled down a spring to cock it. I didn't take it completely apart, but all I could envision was this little hook holding the firing pin back and preventing either a crease in my right butt cheek (best case) or shooting the round down the length of my leg (worst case).

    Quote Originally Posted by archer51
    Most if not all modern firearms are designed that if the hammer drops without the trigger being pulled they will not allow the firing pin to contact the round. Same holds true with revolvers. Most have a transfer bar system of some sorts. If the trigger is not pulled the transfer bar stays down and will not allow the hammer to strike the firing pin. This is assuming the weapon is in good working order and functioning properly. If not you should not be carrying it anyways.
    Well, that goes a long way toward alleviating my fears of an accidental discharge. The other issue I had with the Jennings was that the stupid little safety they supply with that gun would flip itself on sometimes half way through the clip. So if you have a gun with a useless safety, and a possibility of a mechanical failure, then leaving it un-chambered and racking the slide seemed like my only alternative.

    When my new LCP arrives, I'll be running through exactly how it works, the safety features and how to break it down and clean it properly. I would never carry a gun that my life might depend on that I couldn't trust (or neglect to build the skills I need to operate effectively, myself).

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria
    Especially with revolvers though, Rugers have the strike plate and S&W's have the transfer bar, they can't go off if dropped or even if you whack the hammer with a mallet.
    Thanks, Pete. This gives me the specifics on the weapon I'm waiting to receive. It's appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    Worth it? You've got two options. Decide.
    Exactly. Become informed, make a choice, and live with the consequences without whining. I like to live my life like that.

    Thank you all for your educational, reasoned responses. It's appreciated.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

  16. #15
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    Jennings 22 does not qualify as a gun, had one, had accident with said one. The closest thing in the outdoor world the Jennings is, well I would say a weight for your set lines for fishing.

    Your LCP is fairly close to my Kel-Tec P-3at, and after you understand the operation of the gun, I believe you will be comfortable with it.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

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