Fugitive loose; how excited to get?

Fugitive loose; how excited to get?

This is a discussion on Fugitive loose; how excited to get? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yesterday a fellow wanted for a variety of felonies saw a couple of cops, led them on a chase into the next state, crashed his ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Fugitive loose; how excited to get?

    Yesterday a fellow wanted for a variety of felonies saw a couple of cops, led them on a chase into the next state, crashed his stolen car, ran, then shot one of the cops (who is OK, thank the Lord). He then stole another car, and drove to OUR small rural Appalachian rolling-hills-and-cattle county (one stoplight), where he evidently has roots. The 400'-away neighbor reports having seen him on her property, and the cops found the stolen vehicle about two miles from us as the crow flies.

    Sixteen agencies then got into the act, and they searched until nightfall, sans helicopter due to weather. After dark then broke their full perimeter and went to roving patrols - if he shot one cop already, I can understand their concern. They were hoping the cold and wet would prompt him to give up, as he reportedly was dressed in jeans and t-shirt. Today they searched until mid-afternoon then called it off. The sheriff asked all county residents to lock their cars and stay inside with the doors locked. Schools were cancelled today - I don't know about tomorrow.

    We are largely staying inside with the doors locked (hey, we found out we actually COULD lock them), and each of the three of us has a pistol within reach. We have a dog, too, though he's in and out of the house.

    How excited should we be about this at this point? I'm guessing that the fellow either has help locally and will be spirited out of the area soon if he hasn't aready left, or he's hiked out under forest cover and is long gone. But I also don't want to be a fool - he may just be in someone's basement waiting to pop out.

    Should we leave well enough alone and just not even bother to go out to the barn for a few days, for instance? Or until he's spotted elsewhere? When do you go from cowering behind locked doors to a less guarded mode? Sure, we should probably always have a firearm within reach, but I'm thinking that the current situation is a bit overdone.

    Comments welcome.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like you have a pretty desperate and armed guy running around. I would try to stay on high alert until you get more information from the sheriffs department or at least until they open the schools again. I would be curious as to why they called off their search. If you need to leave the house, stay on level orange. If you go to the barn take someone with you if you can and talk loudly on the way there. Give him a chance to run if he's there. I had an aunt and uncle that lived out in the middle of nowhere. He said he always left the keys in his truck outside. If someone really wanted it, they could take it without going inside to get the keys. I suspect in a day or two you will have more information about the situation. It's hard to get good intel early on. Good luck and stay safe.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Got livestock in the barn that needs fed? If not, leave it alone. The law will eventually clear all structures in the area. By now you can be sure he's better armed and stocked up.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  4. #4
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    Most of the time you hear, "I can't believe this happened in our neighborhood." Don't let it happen in yours!

    I would be concerned, I would stay armed and alert...the dog is a real plus.

    Stay armed...stay safe!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Pitmaster's Avatar
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    If you have things that need done do it tactically by covering each other from a distance. I would carry a club in addition to a gun. If one is attacked and fighting a club would be safer to bash his head vs. taking a shot.
    Pitmaster

    HELGA: Where are you going?
    HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
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  6. #6
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    Funny thing, we've had fugitives loose out here twice. I had to go in a barn (armed of course) once to get something while they were looking for him about a half mile away. A helicopter spotted him in the woods later.

    The other time I wrote about in detail in "Armed Citizen success story by new member" or something like that, I can't remember the exact title. We had two guys loose out here around midday once. They were loose for about 3 hours or so before they were caught. I remember the neighbors were really nervous while the manhunt was going on. I was happy this didn't go on during the night and subsequent days, yes we would have been on edge. We would have taken turns at night, for a couple of nights, with someone up listening and watching our house.

    If it helps you think about it any, all three of these guys were caught trying to put distance away from their last sighting. In other words they were trying to move out of the area quickly. Of course that's not to say that they might try to hide around locally then steal a vehicle or hold someone hostage for their aid.

    Good luck
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I would keep curtains pulled so he can't see in,if dog has to go out make sure nobody is outside door that can rush you and get the drop on you,I would be carryng IWB at all times i do anyways.If dog growls or barks i would call LEO to check it out,also wleoutside with dog have somebody cover you with a rifle or shotgun
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Like others have mentioned, if you have animals in the barn that need to be fed, do it in pairs at least. Until the all clear is given by LEO's, I would stay 1 stage above high alert. The way things are today, I am always on high alert.
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  9. #9
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    From Oct 1st, 1996 - April 7th, 1997 a man by the name of Alis Ben Johns led Missouri law enforcement on a 6-month manhunt across parts of rural Missouri stemming from the shooting death of a man he received a ride from. At that time it wasn't certain he was the killer, but just a suspect.

    However during the 6-month manhunt he did kill 2 additional people whose houses he broke into on separate
    occasions looking for food, money, guns and whatever he could get.

    The last 2 1/2 almost 3 months the manhunt focused almost exclusively in my county and the next county over
    due to sightings and evidence of break-ins.

    There were over 600 law enforcement from all over the state including the national guard involved at peak times
    during the manhunt. For weeks at a time however they would scale back considerably until he'd be spotted again or more evidence of him being someplace would surface. Early on he was on the run with a girlfriend of his but she
    was arrested fairly quickly at a time when they were separated.

    Over all, he broke into a lot of homes and was a big threat to everyone on the area. He was an avid outdoors man
    and that helped him survive through the winter.

    He was captured after he was shot by a Missouri State Water Patrol officer about 25 miles from here in the
    next county over. He was armed at the time and attempted to shoot the Water Patrol officer.

    People here were pretty much on edge around here. While everything started about 6 or 7 counties away,
    he ended up hunkering down and stayed pretty much in our county and the next county over.


    State of Missouri, Respondent, v. Alis B. Johns


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What I would recommend is that you keep track of the news and updates on any developments. Keep track
    of where he's reported to be at.

    You can't just stay shut in behind locked doors, especially if the manhunt drags out, but when you are out and about, even on your own property, be alert and stay armed at all times.

    Pay attention to your dogs and animals around your house. Keep lights on outside and make sure your doors and windows are locked at all times. Make sure you keep your vehicles locked and any outbuildings on your property.

    When you return home, make sure you approach your property or house cautiously and look for signs of tampering or being broken into.

    Most often they want to avoid confrontation and the guy in Missouri often broke into places when people were at work or not at home. But not always... The 2 people he killed were both at home when he broke into their homes, and I don't think it was a big surprise that they would be home at the time, IIRC.

    If you think someone is prowling your property, avoid the urge to investigate yourself. Call police to do the investigation.

    Don't be so afraid or paranoid that you become non-functional, but do give things the proper level of alertness and be properly prepared until you have positive confirmation the guy has been caught or has definitely left the area.

    The guy in Missouri would leave certain areas for periods of time, but then he would return to the same areas time and again, so don't discount that possibility either.

    Be alert, stay armed, have a plan, make sure your family understands the seriousness of it and be safe.

    This man shot a police officer... If in the unlikelihood that you or one of your family were to confront the guy, or stumble upon him, know that he is armed and dangerous, so don't hesitate to shoot him if you need to.

    Sorry about the length of my post.

    BTW... Alis Ben Johns did receive the death penalty at trial, but for some reason it has him listed as a former death row inmate, not sure what his current status is as there was no notations next to his name but I believe he was taken off death row because of a successful appeal based on a case of mental retardation.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    OK, help me here: advice seems good (and we'll try to follow it), except on one point.

    If he's on my property, and sees a car with keys in it, he might steal it and be gone. Won't that solve my problem?

    I can get another car, but for all of my bluster on this site I really don't want a confrontation.

    Given: I want to support our LEO in their search, and his leaving in a stolen car would make it more difficult for them. Also, it would be part of the plan to check the car for back-seat passengers before jumping in it.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Exclamation BTDT!!

    A number of years back a escaped felon (we live in the country) attempted to break into the house across the road in the middle of the night, and was greeted by the home owner with his .380 pocket gun. Your fears are very real and well founded.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    Given: I want to support our LEO in their search, and his leaving in a stolen car would make it more difficult for them. Also, it would be part of the plan to check the car for back-seat passengers before jumping in it.
    I would be concerned that "providing him with a vehicle" might cause you some liability issues should he harm anyone else after stealing your car. In today's litigious atmosphere, you could get sued, at the very least...
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    When this happened near me, and my daughter's school was locked down, I told the administration I was taking her home with me and we both had a nice day off from work and school. The school is practically in my back yard, and I wish I was carrying then.

    -JT

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    My father in law lives less than 1/4 mile from a medium security prison ( tho a small town ) and my advise to anyone is the same as to him. On my advise he keeps doors locked , his .38 handy , and a vehicle with about 2 gal gas and the keys in it prominent . That rig will take them about 10 or 12 miles in any direction without anyone being kidnapped/accosted and local le knows to check it in event of an escape since his house is among the closest to the prison. The idea is to make it easy for a fugitive to isolate themselves away from homes or hostages, but not easy for them to get too far. As a former LE i feel and have allways felt i would rather chase them than have some innocent hurt , get them out of the immediate town , and hopefully not to the next one then we can work with the situation .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    OK, help me here: advice seems good (and we'll try to follow it), except on one point.

    If he's on my property, and sees a car with keys in it, he might steal it and be gone. Won't that solve my problem?

    I can get another car, but for all of my bluster on this site I really don't want a confrontation.
    I got your PM... You have a very valid strategy with your thoughts of him stealing your car and then leaving the area. Nothing wrong with that.

    I'm with you on this, in that I would just as soon avoid a confrontation altogether as well.

    Regarding your car, just be aware that if it is left unlocked and stolen, most insurance companies will do their best not to cover the loss.

    If it is left unlocked with the keys still in it, I can pretty much guarantee they won't cover the loss!

    So if being denied an insurance claim on your vehicle won't be an issue for you, I say go for it.

    Remember your levels of awareness as outlined by the late Col. Jeff Cooper

    Condition White: Totally relaxed and unassuming. Not paying attention to what's going on around you. Often thought of as "daydreaming."

    Condition Yellow: Well centered. Aware of yourself and what's going on around you. Able to notice casual changes and looking for possible danger on the horizon. (Minimum level of alertness everyone who is armed should be in when packing a firearm) Also capable of being maintained for long, extended periods of time with no ill stress effects on your mind and body.

    Condition Orange: A heightened sense of Alertness. Something untoward has caught your attention and you are focused on that as a possible threat to your survival. You are ready to act and respond and know how you will respond if warranted. The longer you are in Condition Orange, the more stress that is placed on your body and mental condition. Not capable of being in Condition Orange indefinitely without ill effects.

    Condition Red: Full Body Alarm Mode! You have identified and confirmed something as an immediate threat to your life or safety and you are now in full combat mode. Time for battle. Fight or Flight!

    I would say that Condition Orange should be the proper state of awareness to be in when outside of the house and on your property when the object of a manhunt is ongoing in your area and there is a chance of an encounter.

    When inside your home and it is properly secured and hardened, you should relax a bit but remain in Condition Yellow so your mind and body aren't overtaxed.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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