Massad Ayoob ...

This is a discussion on Massad Ayoob ... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It is rare when I do not come away with a new tip each time I read a new article by him....

View Poll Results: Massad Ayoob - Yes or No?

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  • Massad is a Lethal Force God! 100% correct!

    89 23.30%
  • Massad knows his stuff ... 80% of the time.

    218 57.07%
  • Massad - I agree with him about 50% of the time.

    41 10.73%
  • Massad Ayoob? Who is he?

    21 5.50%
  • Massad - I rarely agree with what he preaches, or his methods.

    13 3.40%
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Thread: Massad Ayoob ...

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    It is rare when I do not come away with a new tip each time I read a new article by him.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    I send him a quick PM from another forum & he emailed me from his personal email address. He was very informative & down to earth.

    Agreed about "In the Gravest Extreme" being a great book. I think that every person who CCWs should read it. Even though it's written in the 70's, many of the ideas still are applicable today. He is very pro-self defense, pro-CCW.

    I love his segments on Personal Defense TV. Yeah, he's monotone, but he knows his stuff.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I have met Mas a few times, and shot with him at a few matches as well. He testified as an expert witness on behalf of a friend of mine who used to own a gun shop (I covered this on a previous post if you can find it regarding gun shop owners) and was involved in 2 shootings there over the course of 4 years. he testified in the second shooting which occurred in early 1993. I took a day off to sit and listen to him testify, and after he stayed an extra day and taught an invitation-only class I was able to get into. It was an eye-opening, mind expanding experience when he shared his opinions and knowledge with us regarding self-defense and concealed carry. Much of what I learned there he still preaches in the pages of his columns today.

    He was very prophetic as well, telling us all that within 10 years the majority of states in the union would have some form of shall-issue CCW in place, even Texas, which at the time, was in the throes of suffering under the old Bar Hag, Ann Richards. I guess all of the traveling he does allows him to talk with a lot of folks and get a feel for things, because he sure was right about that.

    Anyway, I remember that seminar well, for the lessons I learned from it. Massad Ayoob is definitely someone I would pay close attention to....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  5. #19
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    Massad is a member of this forum, perhaps you can address your concern to him personally. He commonly pops up when his name is mentioned. He certainly knows his stuff better than I do and I don't mind admitting it.

    That said, I don't agree with anyone 100% of the time, but he is pretty close. New techniques come and go, but good advice on self defense is never really outdated, IMHO. Some people like him, some people don't, as with anyone in the public eye. Sorta like everything else....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  6. #20
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    Didn't agree with all the poll choices so I didn't vote. I would put him somewhere between the 1st and the 2nd choice.

    I would also have to say that in certain areas, he has no peer!

    When it comes to the physio-psychological aspects of lethal force encounters, no one else has done the research he has done. This aspect alone is part of what makes him such high demand as a witness in lethal force trials.

    I have read his books, own most of his training video's and can't even come close to counting how many articles of his I've read. I've been reading and re-reading and studying his body of works for nearly 3 decades now, and he hasn't steered me wrong yet!

    LFI-1 is on my short list of accomplishments to do in the next 18 months.

    One thing he will do for his students, is testify free of charge if they are ever wrongfully accused and brought to trial. That alone is worth the price of admission to LFI.

    I have the highest of regards and respect for him, and when he speaks, I listen! Even if I may not agree 100% on an issue, there are always some positive information to glean from what he has to say, and I lean more to agreeing with him than not.

    The other thing about Ayoob is that he can back up his position on a matter with actual case law and real incidents; and site them chapter and verse almost verbatim.

    If that makes him a god or guru in some peoples eyes, so be it... I just consider him to be a champion of the good guy and a true authority, without equal, on many topics and issues. But like Bumper said... I don't agree with anyone 100% of the time... I'm not a clone.

    Edit: I decided to go ahead and vote the first choice with the stipulation that nothing is 100%... But pretty damned close!
    Last edited by Bark'n; April 1st, 2008 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Decided to Vote in Poll
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    LFI is on my short list too.

    I've learned a lot from his writings over twenty years, and continue to do so today. He has always given good explanations as to why he has reached the conclusions he does. That is something I respect, a lot!

    I talked with Luis Alvarez and Massad Ayoob years ago when I was researching an "incident" for a research paper. I came up with some OIS Policies that are in practice today due to what I learned from Mr. Ayoob. It was a short telephone conversation, but I'll never forget it.

    My old department treated my like trash after a use of force incident. I no longer work for them, due to that. I can't say the agency I work for now will treat me better, but I'm better prepared due to what I've learned from Mr. Ayoob.

    He may not be right 100% of the time, but he is right more often than not. Heck, I made a mistake back in 1976.

    Biker

  8. #22
    Member Array Southtexas's Avatar
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    I think the folks above said it best, I have never taken a course or met him in person. If I could afford to I would take a class, until then I just hope the money I save by not taking his class will not have to be used to hire an expert should I ever need one in court. One of the best things I can say to anyone here on this forum is there are a lot of students of him here, it is obvious in their posts that they share similar if not taught beliefs. I wont vote on this poll, simply because I dont belief it would be appropriate, there is no 97% category, to vote 80% would invalidate the other 17% of his views that I agree with, to vote 100% would mean I had no use for this forum I would simply follow only his advice. Hope that made sense to some.

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I didn't vote either, but because I don't think it's an appropriate question.

    If the OP has a problem with what Mr. Ayoob teaches he, she, it is free to not read Mr. Ayoob or attend any of his courses. I find that one can learn, if you are willing, from most anybody. You may learn what not to do, or you may learn what to do. It all depends on who is doing the teaching.

    Biker

  10. #24
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    No one is 100%, but with his experience, it doesn't get much closer than he is in this field.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Ayoob is not a lawyer. He has shown that he does not understand the rules of evidence. He cannot advise anyone on the admissibility of evidence.

    Ayoob is not a ballistician, a forensic pathologist, or a trauma surgeon. He is not a scientist. He cannot testify in theory about many of the things he writes about.

    All he can speak to is the actual use of force. That is his expertise. He can analyze a scenario and offer an expert opinion whether force was appropriate.

    He is an advocate against using handloads, while Speer and Hodgdon support handloads for defense. And after repeatedly asking, Mas' still has yet to produce any case number or reference other than his own writing... kinda makes you think, doesn't it?
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  12. #26
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    I have considered him a great resource when I was first starting out...he is obviously very experienced and is willing to share...also found out that he now lives about 30 minutes north of me...I've never met him...would still take a course from him if it were possible.

    Stay armed...always learning...stay safe!
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  13. #27
    Member Array Captain38's Avatar
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    His willingness to respond to individual questions puts him in a class by himself.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array kahrcarrier's Avatar
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    I enjoy reading his material.

    I don't agree with everythng he writes, but I do agree with a lot of it.

  15. #29
    kpw
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    I find myself agreeing with him far more than not. He explains his choices and thoughts on subjects far better than most I've read and faces his detractors with some class. I sure wouldn't mind taking a course from him and if I needed an expert witness in court, he'd be first on the list. I didn't vote either. There isn't a 98% choice.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    just started watching pdtv a few weeks ago. i enjoy watching his part
    of the show, very informitive.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

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