can't trust anybody these days

This is a discussion on can't trust anybody these days within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; on monday evening, while i was at work, three individuals come in the store looking at the fish. one was a BIG guy, probably 6'-6" ...

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Thread: can't trust anybody these days

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    Member Array mrhutch's Avatar
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    can't trust anybody these days

    on monday evening, while i was at work, three individuals come in the store looking at the fish. one was a BIG guy, probably 6'-6" 300+ lbs, one was an equally tall but skinny guy, and the third was a woman. all appeared to be in their mid 20's. they milled around for a while, and then the big guy started asking my a lot of questions about our fish selection (i work at an aquarium/dog food store), leading me toward the back of the store. i started talking to him, and he got more and more excited and interested--meanwhile the skinny guy was talking to the owner's wife (the only other employee at the store at the time) and the girl was browsing around. then the skinny guy kept trying to get the big guys attention, but the big guy kept telling him to leave him alone he was busy. the big guy then thanked me for my time and information, and told the others they were leaving. the walked on down the strip.

    when i got to work this morning, my boss informed me that the trio had eaten dinner at wingzone down the strip, and then robbed the store next to us. apparently the big guy led the our neighbor and his coworker toward the back and then told them to stay put while the other 2 cleared out the cash register, no weapons were used.

    i will now be investing in quality pepper spray and a spring-loaded baton, since i would not have been able to legally shoot or even draw on the individuals had they decided to use their technique on our store--and i wouldn't stand a chance against the big guy hand to hand.

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    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    That's scary. Maybe you could try this
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    Member Array ree's Avatar
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    Do you any theories for why they chose your neighbor's? Did the big guy sense you were alert to their casing? Or did the little ones get some such signal from the owner? Did they perhaps decide there wasn't enough cash at your store?

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhutch View Post
    on monday evening, while i was at work, three individuals come in the store looking at the fish. one was a BIG guy, probably 6'-6" 300+ lbs, one was an equally tall but skinny guy, and the third was a woman. all appeared to be in their mid 20's. they milled around for a while, and then the big guy started asking my a lot of questions about our fish selection (i work at an aquarium/dog food store), leading me toward the back of the store. i started talking to him, and he got more and more excited and interested--meanwhile the skinny guy was talking to the owner's wife (the only other employee at the store at the time) and the girl was browsing around. then the skinny guy kept trying to get the big guys attention, but the big guy kept telling him to leave him alone he was busy. the big guy then thanked me for my time and information, and told the others they were leaving. the walked on down the strip.

    when i got to work this morning, my boss informed me that the trio had eaten dinner at wingzone down the strip, and then robbed the store next to us. apparently the big guy led the our neighbor and his coworker toward the back and then told them to stay put while the other 2 cleared out the cash register, no weapons were used.

    i will now be investing in quality pepper spray and a spring-loaded baton, since i would not have been able to legally shoot or even draw on the individuals had they decided to use their technique on our store--and i wouldn't stand a chance against the big guy hand to hand.
    Is this a Georgia thing? I'm thinking the odds are in their favor ...3 to 1 and with the first two being gargantuan? It seems there's a disproportionate force in their favor to me. I'd be drawing a 1911, not pepper spray. That's like shooting a rhinoceros with a bb gun...you just don't do it.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Member Array Resurgam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhutch View Post
    ...since i would not have been able to legally shoot or even draw on the individuals had they decided to use their technique on our store...
    Please explain.

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    Member Array mrhutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgam View Post
    Please explain.
    hmm, i would think that under the castle doctrin the OWNERS would be able to use deadly force, but i thought that i would have had to be in mortal danger, not just at risk for a concussion and a broken nose. but if i could i would have much rather had a gun. still 15 days away from being able to get my permit though so it wouldn't have mattered if they DID rob us.

    and they robbed our neighbors after we were closed, so they could have just been waiting a little later.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhutch View Post
    hmm, i would think that under the castle doctrin the OWNERS would be able to use deadly force, but i thought that i would have had to be in mortal danger, not just at risk for a concussion and a broken nose. but if i could i would have much rather had a gun. still 15 days away from being able to get my permit though so it wouldn't have mattered if they DID rob us.

    and they robbed our neighbors after we were closed, so they could have just been waiting a little later.
    Just because someone doesn't appear to be armed doesn't mean you're only at risk for a "concussion and a broken nose". Plenty of folks have been killed by unarmed attackers. This is especially the case with this huge disparity of force issue in this one. When there's crooks in numbers...people tend to get pummeled until they hit the ground, then the "friends" jump in and kick and stomp you to death. Never assume an attacker doesn't have the wherewithal or the means to finish you off in rather short order. It WILL be a fatal assumption.

    just my $.01911
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Member Array mrhutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Just because someone doesn't appear to be armed doesn't mean you're only at risk for a "concussion and a broken nose". Plenty of folks have been killed by unarmed attackers. This is especially the case with this huge disparity of force issue in this one. When there's crooks in numbers...people tend to get pummeled until they hit the ground, then the "friends" jump in and kick and stomp you to death. Never assume an attacker doesn't have the wherewithal or the means to finish you off in rather short order. It WILL be a fatal assumption.

    just my $.01911
    oh trust me this guy could have killed me if he wanted, but that's why i would have wanted the pepperspray/baton. but i guess what they say is true, "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" and would have been better off with the sa xd .40 i'm buying in a couple weeks. and i now will be making sure to get some GOOD penetrating ammo, maybe even DPX, cause that guy was big.

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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    I would think that if your boss leaves you in charge of the store you would have the right to protect it. You would be lucky though if you employeer paid for your lawyer........you had better check the laws in your state before listening to me.......
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    Just because they did not display a weapon when they robbed the other store does not mean they were unarmed. Once they make their intent known that a robbery is taking place they have put my life in danger and I will respond to that threat.

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    Member Array mrhutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I would think that if your boss leaves you in charge of the store you would have the right to protect it. You would be lucky though if you employeer paid for your lawyer........you had better check the laws in your state before listening to me.......
    well my boss's wife is in charge of the store, and is co-owner, so technically she is also my boss. and they're good people and good friends, so they would have covered me if needed--though the burglars would have only gotten away with about 300 bucks, which is insured, but it's still scary to think about the "could haves" that some people would be willing to do over a few hundred bucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by archer51
    Just because they did not display a weapon when they robbed the other store does not mean they were unarmed. Once they make their intent known that a robbery is taking place they have put my life in danger and I will respond to that threat.
    also true. but being the type of person i am, it still pains me to think about killing a seemingly unarmed individual. although i'm sure that if i pulled a gun in this situation, they would have run if they themselves were not armed, and in which case they were armed i would have been justified in shooting them, and had the upper hand having drawn my weapon first.

    we were already robbed at gun point last year, and while i was interested in concealed carry before i know am dead set on it and will be spending several hundred dollars of my $9/hour paycheck on the firearm and associated gear.

    i'm starting to hope we get robbed by a white guy next time, because there is a certain pattern in the race of local robbers that is causing me to be unsettlingly prejudiced when sizing up strangers that enter the store, if you know what i mean. i don't like thinking that way, but most white guys that come in the store are either in suits, friendly regulars, or so underdressed they would have to hide a gun up their *** if they wanted to sneak one in.

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    Member Array rhyfl's Avatar
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    Just because they didn't display a weapon, doesn't mean they didn't have one concealed. Consider the recent case in Chicago at a Lane Bryant store - a common robbery gone bad...
    Five women dead in Tinley Park clothing store shooting :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Metro & Tri-State

    Here in FL deadly force is justified if one is preventing a forceable felony such as a robbery.
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    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    I would use caution with a baton. Unless you know what you're doing & have had some kind of training & if the guy is THAT big it might be ineffective. In fact, it might just **** him off. Maybe some LEO's can chime in here.

    I would make sure to carry when you get your CCW permit. Pepper spray would be a good idea too. Do not be a victim.

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    Also check you laws regarding collapsible batons... In some states, it's illegal unless you are law enforcement.

    What is legal in all 50 states is a 5, 6 or 7 cell maglight. Since it's a flashlight, it is not considered a club or bludgeon in and of itself.

    An ASP baton used by a civilian in some states will get you in trouble whether you were warranted to defend yourself or not.
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    When you get that .40 get some good Cor-Bon ammo, that will knock that Big Guy down.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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