Once again, I don't think an officer should ever ever disarm a motorist re a minor traffic infraction including speeding or any of the usual stuff.
I know you would not harm a LEO. I did not say that either :)
I said there are folks who would harm a LEO and have done so.
Depending on what the stop is for, the LEO can and should, in some, not most, cases, know what is going on.
You could give a co-worker a ride home and he has a felony warrant, and you would never know, and you shouldn't know.
These scenarios have ten or twelve angles, not one or two easy ones. So I say once again that officer safety is just as important as your right to carry. Maybe even more so. Once again it is property vs life at possible risk. In every other forum on the boards here everyone always says life is more important than property.
I don't think LEOS should disarm unless the need arises. Once again, and these things have already been said, you have a license to carry, you have a felony warrant, LEO must, under the law, place you under arrest. His job is not made any easier by the fact that you have a gun on you.
Example two, once again already given, your passenger, acquaintance or best buddy, has a warrant, he just heard you tell the cop that your gun is in the console. Your bud has a couple of more years in the state lockup. This is risky business now for LEO.
And of course these things do NOT come up all the time, but how can we tell ahead of time which is legit and which is BS? Only after LEO is not shot or is shot, do we know, oh yeah, that was a bad guy.
So, not armed with foreknowledge, LEOS must be very careful out there. Should not disarm, normally, but there are times when they should.
So, should LEOS be careful on the highways and the mean streets and if so, how careful? Just a little? Not with people who would not harm them? How do they know all this?
I wonder if you truly realize just how many evil MFs are out there? Driving, walking, riding as passengers. I am not exaggerating. The numbers are worse than ever before in our history. Just read what goes on.
LEOS should not disarm for BS reasons, but not all the people they come across are poor innocents.
Go to the Personal Defense News, Good Bad and Ugly. Read some of those stories and now ask yourself whether any of these savages got into a motor vehicle and ended up on the interstate or on city streets, after having committed some of these acts.
Okay, some of them have. So now you have a LEO coming up on a guy who just did this or that. Farfetched? I don't think so. Oklahoma City bombing. A guy speeding was stopped by Okla Hwy Patrol, wasn't the trooper shot to death? Wasn't it a speeding violation BS stop?
So we always know afterwards, that is why there is so much Monday morning quarterbacking about LEOS and how they do things. But no one knows ahead of time. Only later. And then it is too late. But we keep ignoring this part of it, that no one could possibly know what is going to happen, bad or good. So we say oh that LEO, the guy was only speeding. And true, he was. But others speeders are not just doing that because they have a lead foot.
So let's just say we don't know what will happen instead of doing the easy thing of saying oh that turned out okay. Why was LEO so cautious, creeping up the car like that with his hand on his gun butt thinking something might happen. Paranoid LEO.
I think if we truly knew how the streets and highways really were/are, we would wonder why LEOS don't walk up with guns out when making a stop.
NYPD is the only dept I know of that when they get a call "man with a gun" they arrive and get out with guns drawn and ready and everyone in the immediate vicinity is placed on the wall, immediately. How come? Too many cops shot for no reason at all except the savage wanted to. Police must be careful with unknown people. Of course the guys on the wall are bi....ing and moaning but what do they care if a cop is shot? Not their problem. So they are inconvenienced by putting their hands on the wall for a few.
A city police sgt and I went with NYPD in the South Bronx, 44 pct, the third worst in the city, on a Sat night in 1994. Every other call was man with a gun. No one had a gun, it turned out, but that was later. The call came in, so they all took this preemptive action that I had never seen with Boston PD or any other department. I had never seen cops come out of cars like that with guns drawn already, on that type of call. We asked them about it and they said "too many NYPD cops shot and killed. Ain't worth it", he said, a kid of about 22 or 23. I saw then what they dealt with on a daily basis.
Now, I just climbed down off of my soap box and it was about a mile climb down, so I am out of breath, but let me just explain very briefly why I am not an impartial observer here and cannot be relied upon to be impartial about it.
It is a long story but here is why I feel the way I do.
I have been on 200 ride-alongs with Boston Police in the worst high crime areas of the city, once with NYPD in the South Bronx, and one with Calif Highway Patrol. These 200 were over an 8 year period, where I was armed, while with them.
I can only describe what I saw as "raw". Not dramatic or interesting but just raw. I realized how dangerous the city streets are, and it colored my thinking ever since, so I am not the impartial one here. I side with LEOS here more than they side with each other.
So having seen all this, I am partial to LEOS and how they do things to protect themselves.
Two armed individuals meet = no one injured = good meet.
Wow I read all this and it blows my mind. I have been pulled over four times and have never ever been disarmed.
1st time I was pulled over by local PD for doing 55 in a 30 (I was doing 40) and I was sited for reckless driving, (warren county, Va). I told the officer I was armed and he thanked me for telling him and then proceeded to site me for reckless driving. This officer was so bad at his job that I went to court and the judge threw the charge out. (The officer had a dislike for military)
2nd time I was pulled over for a minor VC violation by VA State trooper. I told him I was armed as soon as he came to the R/H side of my car and he saw my gun because I was open carrying at the time (I do that for ease of draw).
We talked for a second then he gave me back ID and said to have a good day.
3rd time was right around the corner from my house. A Fairfax PD officer was standing in the middle of the road with radar gun in her hand telling me to pull over. I told the officer (attractive redhead female) that I was armed and she just said ok then came back with a warning because like I stated to the officer there was no posted speed limit sign between my home and the speed trap.
4th time was when a buddy and I were driving back to his house at about 9pm and at the last second he told me to turn...I made the turn and it ended up being a school parking lot, no good right?? Well there was a Prince William county PD sitting in the parking lot, as I made my U-turn out of there I was given the disco lights. I told the Officer I was armed and she said "ok" then ran my creds.
She came back and told me she stops everyone that pulls into the school parking lot at night then let me go (Total BS stop) but I was not about to argue that.
In all my encounters with LEO's I have never been disarmed....I guess its because I live in the great state of VA!!! On that note I am going to miss this state because I am leaving VA to go to the police academy in the people’s republic of California...:mad: