How closely should I be watching this individual?

This is a discussion on How closely should I be watching this individual? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would first verify with the others in that room if he said that or not. I know that sometimes my hearing is not the ...

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Thread: How closely should I be watching this individual?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    I would first verify with the others in that room if he said that or not. I know that sometimes my hearing is not the best and you don't want to make a mistake on something this serious. If he said that then at least document the incident by filing a police report. Let law enforcement handle it for now. He may be bluffing and trying to scare you away from her so he could have her all to himself. In that case a leo or detective talking to him will get him to stop that nonsense right now. If he was serious, then you need a restraining order NOW and let him know that the police are aware of his intentions and that he would be suspect #1 if anything happened to you or her. Pastors are good shepherds in the church, but they are not psychiatrists which is who he needs to talk to regardless if the threat was real or not.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I want to pop in here with my $0.02.

    It seems that a lot of you are willing to "go the extra mile" and cut the guy a break because he is a fellow church member.
    It really has nothing to do with the dude in question being a church member. It has everything to do with dealing with offenses in a Biblical manner. Resurgam quoted the very verses I always prescribe.

    But in this you are totally correct: even church members can be psychos out to get you. It would pay to be both cautious AND Biblical in handling this.

  4. #18
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    Have a plan to kill everyone you meet, even in church...stuff happens there too.
    The wacko's are everywhere...proceed with caution...watch your back. I don't think I would approach the guy, but I would make others aware of the situation. I would, outwardly, ignore him...but I would have eyes in the back of my head.

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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Much the same as others:

    1) Verify the conversation (the one he spoke with will be more than happy to set you straight if you're wrong, and has every obligation to confirm it if indeed he did say what you think he said). Our job as Christians is to bear TRUE witness about our neighbor, and to protect the innocent. And accusations are confirmed by the mouth of two or three witnesses: you're one, and you ought to have another if you can.

    2) If you didn't hear it correctly, you're done and all is well.

    3) If you heard correctly, he may have a "sin" issue in which you may choose go to him first, etc., (hatred and coveting), but it may be that the pastor may want to explore with him (consider giving the pastor the heads up on this, and ask how it should be handled: the fellow may have too much baggage to hear you, and it might be kinder to have the pastor step in). Thanks for the comment above re: not all church folk are nuts. But some certainly are (and the healthiest ones there realize how close it is to the surface in all of us).

    4) But this is self-protection, and is different than challenging a brother in sin. Here, it is entirely appropriate to refer this to "God's ministers" (local Law Enforcement), as those guys are the ones God has placed in authority over you two.

    5) This guy may be merely a mall-ninja blusterer, and a talking-to from LEO or pastor may do the trick. You'll know by how he responds: "Yeah, that was dumb" and an apology would be a good sign.

    6) But hostility would be a bad sign, suggesting he may be a sociopath in need of full-on treatment, and I would be praying that he get therapy/drugs/rubber room as soon as possible. If he exhibits any hostility, CERTAINLY get a restraining order.

    7) Keep up your guard, and meet in public places or not at all.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    I would have called him out right there!!!!!
    You had witness present and, a threat on your life!!!!!
    Now, I would talk to the other people to find out what he said.
    Then talk to her, if she is flirting or talking to said ninja...Bail !!!
    If she has no relationship with him, Tell the pastor, Get statements or at least name and number from witness and go to the PD.
    If you know for a fact that he has his ninja belts, his hands are deadly weapons so shoot them first should he attack!!
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I am with the group of find out exactly what was said. Whether it be from him, the person that was there or your pastor. Your ears could be playing tricks on you, he could have been talking about someone else, or he could have been talking some other nonsense that was not directed at anyone in particular. Kinda like some do about punks and criminals in general around certain forums, you know the old feed them lead, or blast em till your out and reload for another round.

    Unless your sure about what he was talking about, you could very well make an .ss of yourself by calling the cops, gettting a lawyer involved or anything else of that nature.

    Going off half cocked is about the worse thing you could possibly do. Know your facts before you act.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    ... thinks I am over reacting. Am I?
    These days, insanity rules. It's everywhere. Is he on the brink of killing you for the effrontery to be in the company of someone he has eyes for? Who's to say?

    How closely should you watch this individual? How strongly do you value your life and your ability to be here for your loved ones? Until you can prove there is no issue for concern, you won't know. Sociopaths with a strong spiritual base can be deadly, as is seen around the world.

    Ditto on some of the other suggestions. If you know the other people who were in the group, then you've got witnesses to what was said. If you make discreet inquiries and find corroboration to what you heard, then your life is definitely threatened. If so, then don't screw around with that, lest it be your last thought. Get the pastor and police involved, and get immediately cautious about your security.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    I was at a B-day party for one of our church members last night. There is a woman I have been seeing and there is another man who likes her too. We all had gone together to lunch with our bible study group. I sat next to the young woman and caught him staring our way with an upset look on his face. Back to the party, while going through the hosts' kitchen I overheard a conversation of aforementioned male. Someone asked him what was wrong and he mentioned something about two individuals. He then proceeded to rub his hands from his forehead to the back of his neck and mentioned sticking knives in both of them. I hope that my ears were playing tricks on me. He has extensively studied the martial arts. I have never seen him act that way or say things like that before. He is a member of church and I don't know what to think. My lady friend thinks I am over reacting. Am I?
    i just watched a forensics files episode about a church member that killed another members wife and planned to kill him too because he turned him down on a bank loan. he may have studied marshal arts a lot but so have we,the art of klik-pow.
    actually i dont know what to say except try to find out for sure what his intentions were or are from the people that were close enough to him to hear him the clearest..
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  10. #24
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    Just my opinion here... and some may consider it kind of lackadaisical but I am of the opinion that the only thing you really need to do is be aware of the situation and act accordingly to his future actions.

    Personally, I wouldn't confront him for just the encounter that you posted in your case, and I wouldn't make a big deal out of it by dragging a whole lot of disinterested parties into the mix.

    Bringing in fellow church members or the pastor just gives them the opportunity to possibly draw the wrong conclusion, make things worse or develop an untoward opinion of you. (I certainly wouldn't want to be considered a "reactionary" by others, and you never can tell how other people will think about the situation.) At least at this point.

    What you have is the knowledge of what he said, and knowledge of how he appears to feel towards the girl you both seem to be interested in.

    You have all the information you need to be on alert for this guy from this point on, and keep an eye on him out of the corner of your eye.

    Observe his behavior when in his presence and if any further vague or direct threats are made, press the issue with law enforcement.

    Above all, defend yourself at all times. The tenants of self defense apply across all boards.

    You may also need to evaluate whether your relationship with the lady in question is really worth the hassle or a potential ugly encounter in the future.

    Stay alert, stay armed and prepare to defend yourself at all times. And do not underestimate what anyone else may be capable of doing.
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  11. #25
    Member Array Bline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgam View Post
    What did Christ say we should do in such a situation?

    Matthew 18:15-17 -
    15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

    The Resurgam translation and application of that passage: I'd go talk to the guy and let him know exactly what you felt from his looks at the two of you and exactly what you overheard. Don't leave anything out - be honest. If he convinces you that you're overreacting, great. If he acts the least bit sketchy and especially if he is confrontational or levels any veiled threats, take one or two more established and respected men in the church with you to talk to him again. That way it's more than just your word against his, and if he's really a nut the other guys will catch on. If he doesn't repent, you and, according to Christ, the entire church are obligated to shun the man. No more coming to Bible study to ogle your girl and fantasize about stabbing yall.

    Then I'd go get a restraining order against him and watch my back (and hers) double-time. The restraining order may help in court if you ever have to prevent him from harming y'all.

    +1

    As a brother in Christ and part of church leadership Matt 18 most certainly applies here. When meeting make sure you have a plan in case he reacts with violence. I know a pastor who confronted a man in a sound proof room. A few punches and a head through the sheetrock later he realized that wasn't such a good idea. I agree with the earlier recommendation to meet in a public place in plain view. Either way, I will lift the situation up to the Father and pray that he'll give you wisdom. Grace and Peace.
    In God we trust, everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.

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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    Someone asked him what was wrong and he mentioned something about two individuals. He then proceeded to rub his hands from his forehead to the back of his neck and mentioned sticking knives in both of them...
    Maybe he had a headache and was the describing the pain as being like a knife sticking in both of his temples...

    Maybe not. But it seems out of place that he would say such a thing in the first place and also that whoever he was talking to would ignore such a murderous threat at a Bible study.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    I don't have to worry about it anymore. She essentially told me we should just be friends as she goes to talk to this guy. I have a strange feeling I was just used to make him jealous. I am such an idiot.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    I have a strange feeling I was just used to make him jealous. I am such an idiot.
    You never know what's going to transpire. You never know what people's motivations will end up being.

    A bit of distance and circumspection, as well as being introduced through mutual friends (who can provide another viewpoint / Q&A), can be invaluable. Hard to know about someone who you've met "cold."
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    I don't have to worry about it anymore. She essentially told me we should just be friends as she goes to talk to this guy. I have a strange feeling I was just used to make him jealous. I am such an idiot.
    OMO, you shouldn't think of yourself as an idiot if she used you to make him jealous -- that just makes her a scumbag. You're only an idiot if you keep falling for it. I guess he doesn't have to stab you now because she just did. Self defense is more than just a CCW.

    Quite a group of characters you seem to study with...

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    Well, lesson learned. These are only 2 people out of over 700 people. I can't throw out the baby with the bath water. I'll just have to be more observant what the babies are doing in the bathwater from now on.

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