How closely should I be watching this individual?

This is a discussion on How closely should I be watching this individual? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was at a B-day party for one of our church members last night. There is a woman I have been seeing and there is ...

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Thread: How closely should I be watching this individual?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    How closely should I be watching this individual?

    I was at a B-day party for one of our church members last night. There is a woman I have been seeing and there is another man who likes her too. We all had gone together to lunch with our bible study group. I sat next to the young woman and caught him staring our way with an upset look on his face. Back to the party, while going through the hosts' kitchen I overheard a conversation of aforementioned male. Someone asked him what was wrong and he mentioned something about two individuals. He then proceeded to rub his hands from his forehead to the back of his neck and mentioned sticking knives in both of them. I hope that my ears were playing tricks on me. He has extensively studied the martial arts. I have never seen him act that way or say things like that before. He is a member of church and I don't know what to think. My lady friend thinks I am over reacting. Am I?

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  3. #2
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
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    If he's a church member, I think you're obligated as a fellow member to go talk to him about it privately.

    But I'd set up that meeting in a public place. I don't think that kind of language is to be taken lightly.

  4. #3
    Member Array philman's Avatar
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    So what about the other people in the kitchen that over heard it? Are they church members? Seems someone would say something...maybe they do not know who it involves, seems weird.

    IMHO you are probably over thinking it, but not totally.

  5. #4
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    I'd suggest taking this to the pastor of the church, advise him of the names of the others who heard those comments in the kitchen. If the pastor has any influence with this person, the situation could be diffused without getting anyone else involved. By not making this public, it will make it easier for this person to walk away from his bad. Make it public and it could push him over an edge.

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    A fellow church member.

    This scenario reminds me of what I learned a long time ago, "There is no safe place." Sorry, but to me that's a fact. There are "safer places" but no place is ultimately safe.

    As far as offending a fellow church member and such, HOGWASH. Get the pastor, and the local LEO's involved. Get with your attorney and get a restraining order against this individual. He is no different than any other mentally disturbed individual out there, and YOU ARE THE TARGET!

    Churches and religion are often a haven for mentally disturbed individuals and if what you have typed is true, this person is displaying severe mental problems.

    Biker

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    My lady friend thinks I am over reacting.
    Most, unfortunately, would. Be polite, be professional, be prepared to kill everyone you meet. Hopefully you know the type of man your pastor is- he may be a big help, or an insufferable danger.

    As far as taking the other guy "seriously", organized religion does attract aberrant personalities. It provides a structure and purpose that is not otherwise present in their lives. (No, I'm not saying people who go to church are crazy, just that some craizies are attracted by the familial-replacement the church represents).

    If he's actually her ex something or other, I would probably "move along" quietly. If he hasn't had an actual relationship with her, and is making statements like you relate, yes, he is dangerous.

    Unless the lady has shown some other inclination towards recognizing that not all people bear the love of Christ to the world, I don't see much chance for a positive resolution here, other than you possibly hindering a stalker. If her head is in the sand, and you do have some physical alteration with the gentleman, you'll likely be the bad guy "for being so rough!"

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    I was at a B-day party for one of our church members last night. There is a woman I have been seeing and there is another man who likes her too. We all had gone together to lunch with our bible study group. I sat next to the young woman and caught him staring our way with an upset look on his face. Back to the party, while going through the hosts' kitchen I overheard a conversation of aforementioned male. Someone asked him what was wrong and he mentioned something about two individuals. He then proceeded to rub his hands from his forehead to the back of his neck and mentioned sticking knives in both of them. I hope that my ears were playing tricks on me. He has extensively studied the martial arts. I have never seen him act that way or say things like that before. He is a member of church and I don't know what to think. My lady friend thinks I am over reacting. Am I?
    If i'm talking to somebody and they make an overt threat to be sticking a coupla people Im not gonna be taking it lightly in this day and age.Too many people feel some kind of entitlement today an when they feel rejected or whatever seem to think killing is an option.It's hard to defend against someone that thinks you're in the way of his prize,I would be in condition orange,if this guy decides to take action,remember balzacs post his G/F ex attacked him in his home after getting a few shots of liquid courage bent on killing them then suicide
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  9. #8
    Member Array Resurgam's Avatar
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    What did Christ say we should do in such a situation?

    Matthew 18:15-17 -
    15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

    The Resurgam translation and application of that passage: I'd go talk to the guy and let him know exactly what you felt from his looks at the two of you and exactly what you overheard. Don't leave anything out - be honest. If he convinces you that you're overreacting, great. If he acts the least bit sketchy and especially if he is confrontational or levels any veiled threats, take one or two more established and respected men in the church with you to talk to him again. That way it's more than just your word against his, and if he's really a nut the other guys will catch on. If he doesn't repent, you and, according to Christ, the entire church are obligated to shun the man. No more coming to Bible study to ogle your girl and fantasize about stabbing yall.

    Then I'd go get a restraining order against him and watch my back (and hers) double-time. The restraining order may help in court if you ever have to prevent him from harming y'all.

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I want to pop in here with my $0.02.

    It seems that a lot of you are willing to "go the extra mile" and cut the guy a break because he is a fellow church member. I treat everybody the same, church member or not. That means that if I would do something in regards to a non-church member, I will do the same for a church member.

    This is just like Domestic Violence. The woman gets the crap beat out of her and calls the Police. Then when the Police show up it's, "Don't arrest him, I love him." It's pure and plain bovine fecal matter in my eyes.

    Some church members are criminals, some are psychotics and some are just plain good people, just like the society it draws it's members from. Please don't let the fact that you are a member of a church with this person cloud your judgement. The life you save may be your own.

    Biker

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    go ask the person he was speaking with about the content of the conversation - get confirmation (you thought you might have mis-heard) find out - then do what needs to be done

    IIRC "church membership" means nothing - last I checked it was about a "relationship"

    going to someone about a threat of physical violence (Criminal intentions) and going to someone over a civil issue are two very different things...

    Last edited by MR D; April 7th, 2008 at 03:53 PM. Reason: clarification

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    how would you react if you overheard someone in WalMart saying the same thing about you?

    Theres your answer
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Barbary,

    I think you need to verify what you believe you heard.
    If your ears did 'play tricks' on you, it is over and done with and no one is harmed. If others heard what you heard, then you need to take this seriously.

    I think BikerRN is right...we are not talking about a spat between 2 followers of Christ. We are talking about a threat of violence by someone who is clearly not completely balanced.

    As to the suggestion about involving the pastor...thanks for making him/her the target of this whacko's violence. J/K.

    If it is verified, the pastor may need to know, but not to get involved. It will be time for law enforcement.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  14. #13
    Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    I have to agree with everyone else. Being a christian doesn't mean this guy is meek. I remember one gentleman I went to church with was later shot by a LEO when he charged him with a knife.

    I would talk to the person the guy was talking and try to get the whole story. If he says you mis-heard the conversation, then you have less to worry about. (Although, anyone talking about "sticking knives" in anyone should be watched a little closer.)

    If you do find he was talking about you, take it seriously. If you feel comfortable talking to him about it, do it in a public place (coffee shop, restaurant, etc.) If he doesn't want to talk, you should probably take it to church leadership. If they dismiss the issue, I suggest going to church somewhere else for a while. That's my $.02. It's happening to you, so use your best judgement.

    Good luck.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Cap'n's Avatar
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    Violet crime from passion or jealousy happen far too often. As others have said, talk with your pastor and LEO. If you indeed heard what you think you heard, this individual sounds very unstable! Watch your back and stay safe.
    Welcome to Tennessee, the patron state of shootin' stuff.--SHOOTER

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Sounds like you might have a real problem with this guy. If this conversation occurred within the church group, which it sounds like it did, and no one has acted on it, I'd find a new church to attend now, and would really increase my awareness level.
    Les Baer 45
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