Borderline situations

This is a discussion on Borderline situations within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A real tough decision. Do you stand up for your rights and confront the punks, or do you stay back because the situation may excalate? ...

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  1. #46
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    A real tough decision. Do you stand up for your rights and confront the punks, or do you stay back because the situation may excalate?

    See, I don't think it's about my "rights" at all here to tell the punks to leave MY property alone. I think it is my obligation as an adult to attempt to stop their or correct their aberant behaviour while they are caught in that illegal act redhanded.

    How can it be about "rights"? when it is really about standing up for what IS RIGHT in this and every other scenario where our founding fathers, our great grandfathers, grandfathers, and probably fathers [ if you are old enough ], would have had the attitude they needed their arses kicked and would have been right out there doing it without hesitation, gun or no gun.

    See, thats where this country has gone astray from the principles and laws of the land. Where before you could kick someones arse or take initiative to protect what was yours, and your peers in court [ if it went that far ] would back you, and not the little "johnny bas**rd" who needed his attiitude and ideas of right and wrong adjusted for hom because his parents failed to do their job when he was in diapers of slapping his baby butt to begin with.

    We coddle these young people like they are running the show here. We ignore their behaviour for fear we'll lose our freedom, our home etc. We turn the other cheek, are afraid to physically act on a matter that should be acted on immediately.

    I really think that as adults, with responsibilities to our society and ourselves, need to stand some ground and take back the concepts of "Don't tread on ME". One of the states mottos I grew up in btw.

    We cower at the opportunity to really act on our principles in fear half the time that we'll be seen as unreasonable. I rahter think it is unreasonable to expect a physically fit adult male to NOT go out and protect what is his in some manner without worrying that by that simple act it's "escalating" anything.

    In reality, the escalation was the snotty little brats who MADE me act due to THEIR behaviour at the mailbox. I was minding my own business on my own property and was forced to make a decision to act physically to stop their illegal act and protect what was mine or to ignore them, call for the local boys and stand by and watch as my property was vandalized/destroyed in front of me out of fear I may well be ridiculed by the liberalized mentality of society thats eating the foundation of this country away and has been for some 30 years or so.

    Some choice hey? I'll tell you this much. I'm not going to choose to stand idly by and watch punks tear down or destroy that which I have built with my own hands and hard earned money anytime soon. It will happen one day because I'll not have the ability to stop it myself physically, but it won't be today, tomorrow or likely next year, thats for damned sure.

    The above is not because I am carrying a gun at all. It's because with or without the damned gun, I've been taught from the old schools of life to not let anyone trod their BS on me and if they do, they get dealt with right then and there.

    I'll not stand by idly and allow a group of kids to pick on another kid, pick on older people, etc without saying something and attempting to stop their intimidation of others either. Its' not my nature to ignore problems, it's not ever been my nature to shy away from a potential action that could escalate into a physical plane, not will I change now due to some ideal that it's safer to tunr the cheek and give a blind eye to what is happening in front of me.

    And if that is not PC, I could care less whether I am carrying a gun or not at the time it happens. There is right and wrong, and by not acting on what is morally right, I condone and further the downward spiral of this societies idea that it is better to not act than act on my own behalf.

    If I get my arse kicked for doing so, thats the way it is. I'll not consider that protecting whats mine is escalating the situation, what I will consider and give thought to is that one day when I'm old and feeble I will be able to look back and know that I did not further the problems this country is experiencing with the brats being pumped out by people who think I have no right to move on their offspring because they were only having "fun" somehow, AT MY EXPENSE.

    NO, thats not going to happen anytime soon on this mans watch.

    Brownie
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  3. #47
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    One more thought and I'm out of here on this thread, I've said enough for everyone to give thought to themselves and know where I stand on this.

    My parents taught me to take responsibility for my actions, not be an arsehole to others, to respect others property, and what was right from wrong. They taught me to not let anyone walk on me without consequences.

    After I left the homestead, the Marine Drill Instructors taught me the same values. Stand up for what it is right, not give crap nor take crap from anyone, not start anything I wasn't willing to finish and see through to the end, no matter how much physical or mental pain that involved.

    My friends have told me constantly that I have to not be so quick to bring out or pick up my "Marine Bat", as they call my willingness to stand up and not take crap from people.

    No one who knows me thinks I walk around with an attitude, but everyone who knows me understands I'm willing to have one at anytime with anyone when its called for, and without hesitation.

    That attitude and willingness to stand for whats right has nothing to do with carrying a gun at the time or not. The gun is incidental to actions which are predicated on the belief that you will not be allowed to tread on me, period.

    There are times erring on the side of caution is the wiser choice. I was taught the mindset that accomplishing the mission is more important that the consequences of those choices, no matter what they are. Is the mailbox worth the potential trouble to react to the punks and intercede to stop their bahaviour?

    Maybe, maybe not. It's not the mailbox that the issue here, it's the obligation and principles to not allow whats mine to be detroyed while I stand idly by when I'm physically capable of stopping that aberant behaviour on their part fearing I may be judged by some liberal whose idea of right and wrong has been skewered by his own upbringing by parents who told him to turn the other cheek and not defend what was right, to not take the risks involved with being a man.

    Brownie
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Teenagers do some stupid things. I was one of them that was always in trouble. I didn't use a lot of common sense at times and probley ticked a few people off. Thank god nobody took a shot at me. I look back on these times and think how did make it to 21 years old. What Im saying is let some of the small things go and figure its just another teen punk showing off.

  5. #49
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    Yeah, same here. I never got shot at (thank god) but I did have a gun shoved in my face on two separate occasions. The second one really taught me to quit getting on people's bad side.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    We ignore their behaviour for fear we'll lose our freedom, our home etc.
    I would phrase it differently: We are forced by a cannibal government and legal system that preys upon the righteous for standing up for what's right, in spite of what's right, to the detriment of all. Until that changes, folks standing up in a manner not approved by "the powers" will be forced to sit down far too frequently ... and often in a way that results in severe penalties (financial, freedom). This, IMO, is the worst possible result of an elimination of rights and freedoms. If no longer free to defend one's self against attack, society spins out of control. We're seeing that now. It's absolutely a result of these insane, misguided poltical/legal policies that string up the righteous by their noogies as a matter of course.

    That said, like you I certainly disallow being trod upon. Thankfully, I have yet to face a situation that actually called for violent response where I was held up "in the light" and scrutinized for weaknesses to attack (by the legal system). I hope I never am. It hasn't, so far, changed my behavior though, with respect to doing what's right. May that always be so.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  7. #51
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    There are some valid points made here. I personally do not yet have a ccw. Mainly because I have never been in the instance where I thought a gun would have helped matters. Don't think that my life has never been threatened though, I have been threatened with bats, knives and even a gun, however, here I am, no gun and still alive. This is not to say I couldn't foresee an instance where I would want a gun, it is just that I haven't expierienced one as of yet. If I had a gun in some of my more hair raising encounters, someone would be dead and I would have no inkling that it could have been solved sans bullets. I bring this up because I wonder if you would have confronted the kids had you not been packing. I would also ask how strongly you would have stood your ground if a situation had occured and your were minus one sidearm. I think it is our duty as responsible gun owners to avoid situations where we would potentially terminate someone's life and not focus on whether or not we could "legally" kill someone. The goal is to stay alive not kill bad guys. If you want to kill bad guys join the army (if you didn't when you were seventeen) otherwise just try to live and be happy man.
    If he was gonna decorate his bar with my friend, he shoulda armed himself.

  8. #52
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    One other thing I'd like to add for the guy who's rights are being trampled on by the kids ruining mailboxes. I think eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth would imply you shouldn't kill someone over a mailbox. How much can you put up with huh? Apparently not a lot. We are not cavemen. There is a legal system in America (albeit flawed but the best in the world) to keep people from killing over stupid things and to arrest vandals who do these stupid things. Speaking of our founding fathers, they are the ones who built this legal system and this democracy. Indeed it is all flawed but don't think you can live your whole life and get the best of every situation. I will also tell you that our founding father's made plenty of compromises on many fronts. All we are asking of you is to make a compromise and call the cops, so the legal system can deal with your so called punks. I'm not sure who is tougher a guy with a gun or a guy with a keyboard.

    That's why they call them juveniles. It is just kids screwing with mailboxes. Life in short.

    P.S. If you never played a game of mailbox baseball when you were a kid you never really lived.
    Last edited by swedgin; February 5th, 2007 at 05:01 AM.
    If he was gonna decorate his bar with my friend, he shoulda armed himself.

  9. #53
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    swedgin,
    There are so many things wrong in your thinking that I do not have time to respond. I'll leave that to someone more tactful than me. Well, gotta get suited up and go out and protect those who choose not to protect themselves.
    str1

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swedgin View Post
    I personally do not yet have a ccw. Mainly because I have never been in the instance where I thought a gun would have helped matters.
    The day you'll need it, then, will be too late. Some choose to think differently, regarding preparedness.

    If I had a gun in some of my more hair raising encounters, someone would be dead and I would have no inkling that it could have been solved sans bullets.
    There are often more ways to solve a problem than with bullets; it's just that you'll never know when that situation will arise. Being unarmed forces you down one funnel of options, which may well conflict with the desired end result of surviving the encounter. There's no way to tell, in advance.

    Imagine this: You're heading down a canyon and expect rainfall by midday. You have the option of taking a 100ft coil of climbing rope, just in case. Would you? Well, canyons and water can combine to a bad mix. You never know. Preparedness suggests you take the rope, 'cause you won't know until it's too late whether that rope could save your life. Being armed is like that. It's insurance, plain and simple.

    I bring this up because I wonder if you would have confronted the kids had you not been packing. I would also ask how strongly you would have stood your ground if a situation had occured and your were minus one sidearm.
    Well, there's the rub. Doing what's right and reasonable shouldn't have to depend on whether one is armed to the teeth. Yet, with today's knee-jerk violence by the dishonorable few (criminals), it's hard to know when such a simple encounter will explode into something deadly. Assumption: it can happen at any time, over a mere "diss" or perception. Doesn't make the stopping of a silly petty action any less reasonable because one is armed. OTOH, that makes one wise in anticipating possible risks.

    I think it is our duty as responsible gun owners to avoid situations where we would potentially terminate someone's life ...
    Every situation spent while breathing is such a situation. Welcome to the modern world, where thugs don't believe "normal" folks have a right to resist; where the sheepdog:sheep ratio is so low that wolves have grown bolder; and where life doesn't matter much, to criminals, in the grand scheme of things. Carrying <> a kill-em-all mindset.

    That said, I often leave property/insured encounters to the professionals, as I believe my life isn't worth the risk. Simple fooling with my mail, however, is something I would resist. Any subsequent escalation, however, would be on the part of the BG; not me.

    If you want to kill bad guys join the army (if you didn't when you were seventeen) otherwise just try to live and be happy man.
    Do not mistake preparedness with willingness to kill. That, frankly, is what distinguishes the good from the bad.

    BTW, "just try to live and be happy" is a noble goal. Trouble is, the choice of when a situation is to explode isn't made by us, the good guys. Rather, it's made by the bad guys, on their terms. Unknown when it's going to explode. Sometimes, it's right in front of you. I've had this happen. Several times. The only choice one has is in such situations is this: whether the level of preparedness is sufficient to be able to respond/resist and protect our families.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; February 5th, 2007 at 10:35 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #55
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    swedgin

    I bring this up because I wonder if you would have confronted the kids had you not been packing. I would also ask how strongly you would have stood your ground if a situation had occured and your were minus one sidearm. I think it is our duty as responsible gun owners to avoid situations where we would potentially terminate someone's life and not focus on whether or not we could "legally" kill someone. The goal is to stay alive not kill bad guys.

    Think perhaps you missed this previous segment of my post?


    Some choice hey? I'll tell you this much. I'm not going to choose to stand idly by and watch punks tear down or destroy that which I have built with my own hands and hard earned money anytime soon. It will happen one day because I'll not have the ability to stop it myself physically, but it won't be today, tomorrow or likely next year, thats for damned sure.

    The above is not because I am carrying a gun at all. It's because with or without the damned gun, I've been taught from the old schools of life to not let anyone trod their BS on me and if they do, they get dealt with right then and there.


    swedgin

    How much can you put up with huh? Apparently not a lot. We are not cavemen.

    All we are asking of you is to make a compromise and call the cops, so the legal system can deal with your so called punks. I'm not sure who is tougher a guy with a gun or a guy with a keyboard.
    It's not a matter of WHAT I can or can't "put up with" sir. It's a matter of what I will or will not put up with from others. There's a world of difference there between the two.

    Call the cops and let the legal system deal with it?, so they can get there 45-60 minutes later, if they respond at all out here in the county for a mailbox crime?

    That means the kids get off scott free with their BS, and I get to spend more of my hard earned money and time to fix/repair or replace my mailbox.

    In reality, I could call the local post office and ask to speak with a postal inspector, thats who has jurisdiction for tampering with mail [ in the event I have mail waiting to be picked up or the mail has been delivered by the postal service and it's in the box ].

    Now, the postal inspector will get back to me sometime in the next 48 hours if I'm lucky, and a week later if not. That would certainly be letting the legal system work for me, but it would NOT solve the problem of my mailbox being vandalized by intervening on my own behalf to stop their illegal activity right then and there by acknowledging I see their actions and they'll knock it off before I have to repair/replace something at my expense.

    ccw9mm

    That said, like you I certainly disallow being trod upon. Thankfully, I have yet to face a situation that actually called for violent response where I was held up "in the light" and scrutinized for weaknesses to attack (by the legal system). I hope I never am. It hasn't, so far, changed my behavior though, with respect to doing what's right. May that always be so.
    There are people who live in fear of reprisal from the justice system or the kids who they challenge [ in this scenario ]. I don't, nor will I in the future. Living in fear of what might happen when I intervene to protect what is mine is not an option.

    Brownie
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  12. #56
    Member Array swedgin's Avatar
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    AzQkr
    Read my previous posts again as I think I've been greviously misinterpreted. My point is that these are just kids. It is not you or your liberties or your freedoms being trod upon, hell it's not some social statement at all, it's JUST kids. When you were a juvenile did you ever perform any vandalism or happen to pi$$ off some adults. I bet you did and if you didn't I bet your kids did. Now imagine some jack a$$ wanting to pull a gun on your kids for ruining his mailbox. I don't imagine that would make you too happy. If you say your kids would never do anything like this I'd say your full of shyt. It's the nature of kids to push the limits and rebel. If you want to go and run them off with a bat or yell at them until they take off then thats fine, but don't act like America is falling apart and everything that is wrong with this world could be stopped by a bullet from your gun. I am sorry that "that's where you draw the line" because someday your going to do something you didn't want to.

    Call the cops and let the legal system deal with it?, so they can get there 45-60 minutes later, if they respond at all out here in the county for a mailbox crime? AzQkr

    Do you know why they would take so long or not show at all sir?

    BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY CATCHING REAL BAD GUYS NOT PUNK KIDS.

    I am not asking you to be afraid of anything as you are the one who wields the sword but with that sword comes responsibility. Know that because you have the power means you do not have to use it. Perhaps I am too big a fan of the new testament(good book, I recommend it). I believe that if it is just a slap then turn the other cheek. Ah, but Jesus never mentioned what to do if someone punched me. I'll answer that on a case by case basis.

    CCW9MM
    I think I agree with most of what you have said. I am pro concealed carry permits, I was only meaning to stress in my first post that my frame of mind was not right in the past for concealed carry(i.e. now I want to be prepared). I also expressed in my first posts that because I didn't have a weapon those times, I knew that most situations could be resolved without one. So obviously I understand peaceful resolves as I've been expressing that throughout these posts.

    I often leave property/insured encounters to the professionals, as I believe my life isn't worth the risk. Simple fooling with my mail, however, is something I would resist.CCW9MM

    Sometimes, you have to ask yourself if it is worth the BG's life too. I mean, if you tangle with some kid over something stupid and eventually you justifiably use your firearm, it's now too late to ask yourself, "Did I really need to handle that or would that have been best handled by the police or by someone else?" If someone comes in your home and directly threatens you or your family than you should definitely shoot to kill, but if some kid knocks over you basketball hoop or breaks the window of you car then I don't think it is your gig to go out there and partake in an albeit already initiated situation which could resolve in the death of the BG.
    Last edited by swedgin; February 5th, 2007 at 03:05 PM.
    If he was gonna decorate his bar with my friend, he shoulda armed himself.

  13. #57
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    Read my previous posts again as I think I've been greviously misinterpreted. My point is that these are just kids. It is not you or your liberties or your freedoms being trod upon, hell it's not some social statement at all, it's JUST kids.


    Sounds like something the liberals would tell us, and expresses exactly what the liberals want us to become, that of mindless to "kids" and their actions. Like being a kid gives them privledge of some kind to destroy, vandalize, etc in the name of "They're only a kids"

    Now, I'm not sure how you view kids that vandalize, or destroy, but I obviously view them as young adults, responsible for their actions from the time they know right and wrong at a very early age [ for the most part ] just as much as anyone else.

    Being a "kid", does not give them carte blanche to commit crimes of any kind whatsoever. More importantly, people who think as you do are part of the problem we have today within our society and why kids are allowed to get away with this type of action. Hell, they are only a kid right?

    Hell, they are only a kid right? ===well, it doesn't matter how old they are, the fact remains I'm losing time and money to repair the damage, which directly affects me. Sitting in my home minding my own business, the kids can do the same, and we'll all get along. If they choose to enter my world and vandalize/destroy what is mine, they deal with me directly if I catch them. That could be yelling for them to move off and leave whats mine alone, or it could mean anything above and beyond that if they want to challenge that authority.

    Yes, thats right, I said authority. Kids answer to adults, to their elders, at least they used to. They also used to have the respect for elders and would fear their actions being brought to their parents attentions as they would get their arses kicked good when they got caught by their parents. Thats not where this country has moved to in these last decades however, and much of it is due to liberal thinking parents that feel they should be allowed to be kids and it's no big deal if they do stupid crap to others, it's all in the name of growing up nowadays.

    I find that thought process a bunch of crap, and again one of the main reasons kids are allowed to be as they want to be. God forbud we stifle their imagination to destroy, or vandalize something that doesn't belong to them, they are only expressing themselves afterall right?

    In no uncertain terms, they'll have learned to leave me alone in the future, as "that guy that lives there will be out the door and in our faces and not sit inside and hide behind some curtain while we do whatever we want", that "we'll have to answer to our actions with that guy, better to go elsewhere next time" Thoughts like that from these kids are a good thing. They understand quite well they don't want to "play" with some and with others they can get away with it. Want to guess who they are likely to go to when they want to get away with their crap vs who they want to stay away from?

    [/I]When you were a juvenile did you ever perform any vandalism or happen to pi$$ off some adults. [/I]

    No I didn't. I was taught right from wrong at a very early age and towed the line or else my parents made my life a living hell. If I were to upset some adult, they called my parents. If what I did was inadvertant in nature, I was told to not do it again.

    If it was not inadvertant and I shoudl have known better, I paid the price in many ways, and learned real quick to make decisions that were right, not wrong, even if I couldn't join others in "having some fun" at someone elses expense.

    I bet you did and if you didn't I bet your kids did. and If you say your kids would never do anything like this I'd say your full of shyt.

    Again, my kids have never done anything wrong. ------I don't have any. But if I did, they'd be polite to adults, and respect others property, and if they didn't, there would be hell to pay, and they'd understand like I did as a kid, to err is human, to err with bad intent is to be "punished" accordingly so I learned I didn't want to do that again or suffer the consequences of my actions.

    If you want to go and run them off with a bat or yell at them until they take off then thats fine, but don't act like America is falling apart and everything that is wrong with this world could be stopped by a bullet from your gun. I am sorry that "that's where you draw the line" because someday your going to do something you didn't want to.

    Nowhere have I stated I would use a gun in this scenario. How you come to that thought process is beyond me. In fact I've stated twice now that my actions are not predicated on having or not having a gun with me in this scenario.

    If I were going "to do something you didn't want to" one day, it would have happened a long time ago. I've carried since 1971 legally, worked on the streets for almost three decades dealing with all kinds of problems and was in LE work for 9 years. I'm not prone to making mistakes, if I were, I would not have lasted that long on the streets or still be able to not only own but carry firearms today.

    Do you know why they would take so long or not show at all sir?

    BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY CATCHING REAL BAD GUYS NOT PUNK KIDS.


    Yes, I know, and they fully understand that call is a low priority response. Remember, I was in that line of work and responded to calls for assistance. They'll get there because they are obligated to respond at some point, but it won't be in time to stop whats mine from being vandalized. Hence, I'll step off the porch and respond to their actions myself. Afterall, I have a vested interest in whats mine don't I?

    And by not calling the law for some snotty kids just being kids, I think I'm helping that little old lady being mugged by not allocating resources of a cruiser to my location for something that I can address right here and right now.

    If I call the law, they will need to respond, but not because some kids were vanadalizing my mailbox. It will be much more serious than that. Perhaps if we all dealt with these little brats firsthand, the resources would not be so stretched to the limits everywhere in the lE community responding to such nonesense that could be very easily resolved by stepping out on the porch and "resolving" the situation ourselves.

    Are you suggesting all of America call the cops for EVERYTHING that happens that might require a citizens intervention to resolve? What sort of chaotic society would we live in then. I can see it now, all over America, grown men calling the cops to tell little Johnny bast**d to go away and be a nice little boy from now on while real crimes go unanswered in a timely manner as the resources are diverted by people who live so timidly they can't do anything without the laws intervention, including the very simple act of yelling at some brat to get to hell away from the mailbox.

    I am not asking you to be afraid of anything as you are the one who wields the sword but with that sword comes responsibility.

    And if you read my previous sentences, you'll understand I take responsibility for my actions and act in a lawful manner by still being able to possess and carry firearms. What in my posts gives you the idea that I'm not responsible in my actions?

    Know that because you have the power means you do not have to use it.

    Your idea of power and mine are probably quite different. One day I may explain the real power of the world to you, but for now, lets just say the real power of the world comes from the hands.

    Perhaps I am too big a fan of the new testament(good book, I recommend it). I believe that if it is just a slap then turn the other cheek. Ah, but Jesus never mentioned what to do if someone punched me. I'll answer that on a case by case basis.

    Whatever that means.

    So obviously I understand peaceful resolves as I've been expressing that throughout these posts.

    I'll peacefully express my displeasure at their actions at my mailbox as well. How they want to respond to that is up to them, not me. I'll give you a little hint here though, if they choose to escalate and continue their illegal actions against what is mine, they soon learn the "power of the hand" and stop then.

    I often leave property/insured encounters to the professionals, as I believe my life isn't worth the risk.

    What risk would that be? That you get your arse handed to you if you confront them and they challenge your authority and it gets physical? Thats a risk I've always been willing to take, and one I've been well trained in to deal with in such instances if that ocurrs.

    If someone comes in your home and directly threatens you or your family than you should definitely shoot to kill

    Shoot to kill? Interesting statement, and one that will get you in more trouble admitting to than anything I've posted on the subject here. Perhaps it is you who should not be carrying a gun if your idea of self defense is to "shoot to kill".

    but if some kid knocks over you basketball hoop or breaks the window of you car then I don't think it is your gig to go out there and partake in an albeit already initiated situation which could resolve in the death of the BG.


    and thats your perogative, it's your property. I also have perogatives and I don't feel you need to post that I should be like you or I'm wrong for some action you yourself would not take.

    One of the very telling comments you have made here which I did not address purposely beforehand was this:

    All we are asking of you is to make a compromise and call the cops, so the legal system can deal with your so called punks.

    That attitude is expressed in every liberals speach about gun control. We don't need no stinkin gun, we should let the cops and the legal system "deal" with the problems.

    The word compromise should not be used lightly here.

    Brownie
    Last edited by AzQkr; February 5th, 2007 at 11:17 PM.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    swedgin:

    Quote Originally Posted by swedgin View Post
    Sometimes, you have to ask yourself if it is worth the BG's life too.
    No, the BG has the choice to do that for himself.

    I do not tangle with people. In certain situations, I might voice displeasure, as AzQkr has suggested. Any escalation will be on the part of the BG, not me. Now, depending on the situation and people involved, I might well opt to not get directly involved, choosing instead to leverage a digicam, noting license plate numbers, getting another witness, calling 911, whatever. The thing is, many perps these days seem all to willing to violently escalate the slightest "diss" or objection to their nefarious actions. So, those who can dare direct contact must be able to deal with the explosion if it occurs. I cannot do so physically for very long, due to disability. Thus, as I have few options in case of escalation, I opt to play it safer and at more of a distance, most times. (And there have been quite a number of times where a situation has developed right in front of me.)

    Where I get resolute is when my life or the life of someone I know or am with gets threatened. That will not happen the way the BG plans, while I'm still breathing. Anything less than such an encounter, however, gets handled quite a number of rungs down the force continuum ... almost certainly verbally, unless the BG requires it to go beyond that.

    ... but if some kid knocks over you basketball hoop or breaks the window of you car then I don't think it is your gig to go out there and partake in an albeit already initiated situation which could resolve in the death of the BG.
    There's a simple distinction being missed, here. There is no reason whatsoever that such an engagement should end in the death of anyone. And any escalation to that point will be on the part of the BG; I will not escalate it. That's part of the deal, when you contemplate strapping on a carry weapon and going concealed. It's no longer an option to force an encounter in an escalated direction. And, no, the mere fact a situation is dealt with in a civil, proper and straightforward fashion (as opposed to be ignored or swept under the rug) does not mean it's an escalation of any sort.

    In such situations as you describe, I'll treat it like the insured event that it is. Names/info will be taken; photos will be taken; if necessary, the police will be called to create a somewhat objective report the insurance company can lean on. If the people look to have violent leanings (due to dress, actions or words), I might well request police presence prior to even going out to the scene. Depends. Should folks participating in the queries decide to escalate the encounter to something else, that's their option. As will be my response to any violence directed at me. I'll certainly be prepared in the event that such a thing occurs. But it won't be of my choosing nor of my doing.

    Suggestion: Acquire, read and think about the following book prior to considering getting a concealed carry license: "In The Gravest Extreme," by Massad Ayoob. Though written in 1980, it's still one of the best collection of requisite concepts for anyone considering the use of lethal force. Consider, as well, taking his "Judicious Use Of Deadly Force" courses prior to licensing. Those two, together, will remap your synapses regarding concealed carry, the risks, the responsibilities, and your place in the scheme of things once you begin carrying.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #59
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    swedgin:

    I forgot to address this in my previous post, so I'll include it here for your thoughts.

    I believe that if it is just a slap then turn the other cheek

    I'll not turn the other cheek when I've been slapped, period. I know there is a verse somewhere that also states that "it is better to give than to receive"

    I always much preferred to give than receive and have learned over the years that those who take it will likely be given even more for the turning of the that cheek. Those that refuse to take it and can physically give it back, know "the power of the hand" .

    That's why they call them juveniles. It is just kids screwing with mailboxes. Life in short.

    Agreed, too short to have to deal with crap from the likes of kids who know right from wrong and choose to ignore the golden rule. You apparently know scripture, you know the golden rule right?

    P.S. If you never played a game of mailbox baseball when you were a kid you never really lived.

    Thats very a very telling statement from you and explains a lot about the contents of your posts on the subject. I would have never thought to destroy anothers property when I was growing up. Guess I never really lived, what with all that fishing, hunting, organized sports, etc.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  16. #60
    Member Array swedgin's Avatar
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    P.S. If you never played a game of mailbox baseball when you were a kid you never really lived.
    Thats very a very telling statement from you and explains a lot about the contents of your posts on the subject. I would have never thought to destroy anothers property when I was growing up. Guess I never really lived, what with all that fishing, hunting, organized sports, etc.
    Well maybe you just didn't have the trials some of us had in our lives at an early age either. Maybe you came from a perfect family where no one did anything wrong. I grew up in the inner city where trouble found me. I came from a broken home and grew up on a shoe string budget. A lot of opportunities were not there for me as they are not there for a lot of kids. I don't want you to feel sorry for me, I only illustrate that we have different backgrounds and as I grew to be one of "those punks" for a short time of my life I can somewhat identify whereas you can not because you were perfect as you stated. I think it's foolish to say that an upbringing has no effect on a persons outcome. If you don't believe me go to a poor neighborhood. None of this is to say you didn't grow up poor but you had opportunity(fishing, hunting, etc.). An idle mind is the devil's playground and twice as much so for a child.

    Maybe we are just not of like mind but we do agree on these things: Life is short(possibly too short to spend time arguing this silly pont) and of course guns are an asset to the community and we will both work hard to keep American's rights to defend themselves(we just will not agree on the specifics though).

    I admire your fortitude. I will now relinquish this thread.
    If he was gonna decorate his bar with my friend, he shoulda armed himself.

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