Would you aid an unarmed security guard? - Page 2

Would you aid an unarmed security guard?

This is a discussion on Would you aid an unarmed security guard? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yes, I would help in anyway needed. My conscious wouldn't let me stand by and do nothing....

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Thread: Would you aid an unarmed security guard?

  1. #16
    kpw
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    Yes, I would help in anyway needed. My conscious wouldn't let me stand by and do nothing.


  2. #17
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    In the mall setting, I would be reading or hearing about it in the news. The two malls around here are victim zones, so I do not go to them. Anywhere else I would do anything in my power to assist him or her, even if that meant terminating some BG's.
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  3. #18
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    In the case of the beating, I would tell them that I called the cops and I would start pushing them away from the guard. I've been in plenty of fights against many people at the same time, and I've never been injured. I could kick the crap out of a bunch of kids.

    But the moment I saw a weapon I would draw my gun and tell them to drop it. If they made a move towards the guard or myself, I would shoot them without hesitation.

    I would be yelling at them this whole time, because the more attention you attract, the more witnesses you have.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    I'll summarize my position:

    Priority 1: My family.

    Priority 2: Providing for my family (me).

    Priority 3: Being a good samaritan.

    If I feel, given the totality of the circumstances, that #1 is absolutely assured and #2 is relatively assured, I will proceed to #3. Short of that, all I will do is call for help and be a good witness by writing down what I see immediately.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    A properly trained Security guard will not let them self be placed in either of those positions in the first place.

    Their job function is to be a official presence,
    to observe,
    to report,
    to call the Police to deal with thugs.

    They do not have the authority to touch anyone, arrest anyone, detain anyone, unless they are a willing subject. About all they can legally do is look official and make requests.

    Now would I help one that is in deep doo doo because he over steeped his authority, only if is life or someone else's is in danger.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  6. #21
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    Neutralize the threat. If I am in close proximity, I will help the guard. However, I do agree that a well trained guard would never be in that position.

  7. #22
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    I would take their camera away. For some reason, teenagers like to capture their beat downs and other mayhem on camera so they can show off to their friends and post it on YouTube. If you remove that element from the equasion, they might just stop.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    They do not have the authority to touch anyone, arrest anyone, detain anyone, unless they are a willing subject. About all they can legally do is look official and make requests.
    Bologna.

    This is a common misconception. Unless you can prove me wrong, every state has citizens arrest.

    In general, you can arrest for a felony committed in your presence or any violence against yourself. In most states you can arrest for violence against someone else.

    Now here's the key that always hangs people up:

    Generally, you can use force (including arrest) to prevent a crime from being committed against you.

    The guard is an agent of the mall. If someone commits a crime against the mall then the guard is a victim.

    This is why they can and do lawfully detain shoplifters. If your assessment was correct, there would be no store detectives, security guards or otherwise putting the gleeb on shoplifters.

  9. #24
    Member Array bigdog21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    A properly trained Security guard will not let them self be placed in either of those positions in the first place.

    Their job function is to be a official presence,
    to observe,
    to report,
    to call the Police to deal with thugs.


    They do not have the authority to touch anyone, arrest anyone, detain anyone, unless they are a willing subject. About all they can legally do is look official and make requests.

    Now would I help one that is in deep doo doo because he over steeped his authority, only if is life or someone else's is in danger.
    I am a security officer and job functions may vary depending on the contract and assignment. Depending on the post orders the duties of a security officer can encompass more than observe ,report, call police. They could be charged with protecting persons and property by direct intervention.
    The property im assigned to (an apartment complex) my duties include protecting persons and property.

    Also Security officers can use the same force a private citizen may when it comes to protecting ones self or another , protecting property , ejecting undesirables etc. Also ANY citizen may make a citizens arrest, for what crimes depends on the state, some limit citizens arrest to felonies others to any crime committed.
    So Id be careful making blanket statements like the ones I bolded.

    Also If someone were to attack a mall security officer in fl, you would be witnessing a felony in progress . As it is a third degree felony to touch or strike a uniformed licensed security officer while in performance of his or her duties in fl.
    Last edited by bigdog21; April 15th, 2008 at 01:42 AM.

  10. #25
    Member Array Magilla82ABN's Avatar
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    I would assess have my wife call 911 while getting back then I would scream as loud as I can while trying help the guard. Drawin my weapon would be the last resort as it always is. I might throw a shoe at them. I dont think I would wanna get hit with a shoe-j/k
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  11. #26
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    I would absolutely be inclined to come to the aid of the guard in question. As far as drawing my weapon, it would depend on the severity of the fight in situation 1 / #2 is almost certainly. Here in FL the law permits the use of deadly force in coming to the aid of a person being threatened with their life when a forceable felony is being committed.

    I am no lawyer, but it does seem fairly straitforward for #2.

    Here is the exact language from the Florida Statutes....

    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
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  12. #27
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    I see no one has said, "Well you don't know the real story..."

    It would be a good assumption that the guard is not the BG, and probably one I would go with, but there is always the chance that the guard is being a BG, i.e. interacting with someone he has a vendetta against; dealing with a former BF/GF; overstepping his authority against other BGs; etc. Still, it should come as no surprise to the yutes that somebody would step forward to assist the uniform.
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdog21 View Post
    I am a security officer and job functions may vary depending on the contract and assignment. Depending on the post orders the duties of a security officer can encompass more than observe ,report, call police. They could be charged with protecting persons and property by direct intervention.
    The property im assigned to (an apartment complex) my duties include protecting persons and property.

    Also Security officers can use the same force a private citizen may when it comes to protecting ones self or another , protecting property , ejecting undesirables etc. Also ANY citizen may make a citizens arrest, for what crimes depends on the state, some limit citizens arrest to felonies others to any crime committed.
    So Id be careful making blanket statements like the ones I bolded.

    Also If someone were to attack a mall security officer in fl, you would be witnessing a felony in progress . As it is a third degree felony to touch or strike a uniformed licensed security officer while in performance of his or her duties in fl.
    Key words private citizen simply donning a uniform does not give an individual any special authority, if you touch someone it can become battery, and then the lawyers get involved.

    Meanwhile if you are a guard and this happens you will be at the very least put on administrative leave if not terminated on the spot. I have had extensive training in this area and it may be different in Fl but her in MI at least those are the facts and not just a blanket statement.

    Exceptions; Specially trained guards such as those in a nuclear power plant, they tend to contract their own Security (private Army). There are other examples of this but you will not find them at the local mall, ball game or theme park.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  14. #29
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    Lets keep it on topic and civil. I myself work private security. rules of engagement vary depending on state law and store /company rules. Nuff said.
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  15. #30
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    The situation would have to be extremely dire for me to draw my weapon. To present a weapon in Alaska constitutes Deadly Force, whether or not shots are fired. If I presented the Red Dot on the BG, I had better be prepared to fire, because any prosecutor would consider it the same thing.

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