I love NYC
This is a discussion on I love NYC within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is what happened in NYC a coupla weeks back. Partly this is FYI to visitors to a big city, partly looking for feedback if ...
April 16th, 2008 08:28 PM
I love NYC
This is what happened in NYC a coupla weeks back. Partly this is FYI to visitors to a big city, partly looking for feedback if any.
If you say " big city" with gusto, through clenched teeth, you know how I feel about them!
5yo son & I visited NYC (sick family member), and arrived 10pm, Penn Station. We took the 5 uptown to 149th st., for a transfer at an unfamiliar station (weekend construction). Seconds after exiting at that stop, a lady who was previously sitting next to me with her son (5yo), screamed "he's got my son!" Others didn't, but I knew instantly she was refering to some ex who she let her son visit with on the train. She refused to let the train doors close, preventing the train from leaving. I walked briskly away, no one eyed me. I had instant tunnel vision for the exit as two girls hustled by me saying "I'm running" and other folks made haste removing themselves from the area. Adrenaline hit the top as I dragged my son up the stairs three at a time. I did not want to get further than somewhat lost, and saw one of the 'involved' walking alone not far behind me up the stairs, very agitated. We walked further, stopped, waited a few minutes, and went back down. The train hadn't left, and as we arrived, a young man started getting loud, and had his hand shoved down the front of his jeans (not scratching!) We bailed again, although in less of a hurry. I was worried more about ricochets than being shot at as we weren't in the middle of the fracas. I didn't go back down till I saw the cops, summoned by train crew, leaving the scene a few minutes later.
Lessons: never in big city subway late at night again, even with a group. If I had a gun I would have done nothing differently except to keep my hand on it. Brain ping-ponged between condition yellow, orange, and red: boing boing boing. I wouldn't have gone down the second time so soon, except that it now seemed quiet there, I was on unfamiliar turf, and adrenaline almost forced me to keep on the move. No cell signal. NEVER wear handcream, and then apply to child's hands=slippery hands!!! I did this later in the trip, and was surprised how that may have changed things in the subway.
I spent sevaral minutes later explaining what I saw, consoling a tearful 5 year old, complimenting him for stellar running. He's learning about guns and BG's so this was an object lesson at the expense of his shins and my pounding heart.
A special thanks to writings of Massad Ayoob, Chris Bird, and the DC contributiors in [Tactical] Defensive Scenarios forum. I saw and heard and recognized. Some more wool fell off, and the sheepdog teeth got some sharper.
April 16th, 2008 08:46 PM
One of the things to keep in mind in any big city, and NY is certainly a big city, is that the transportation system often goes to and through areas and sections that are unsafe at any time, but certainly late at night.
I lived in NYC for the first 24 years of my life and rode the subway almost every day from the time I 20 till I was 24, often at very late hours.
But, when you live there you quickly learn where not to be at certain times.
You learn to chose which route you take.
It is so long ago, that I had to take a quick look at the subway map to see if I could figure out where you might have been. It looks like there is a 149th street station in The Bronx--or perhaps it is the last stop in Manhattan before getting to The Bronx. Yup, not a good place to be at night.
Still, after almost 4 years of daily riding for one hour each way from the north Bronx to downtown Brooklyn and back, I encountered no personal harm and observed only a few "incidents." Nothing major happened.
I can't speak for today, but back then (mid-1960s) the subway police were quite active especially at night. There was at least on officer at each station and one on each train. And they made an effort to keep the passengers together in one or two cars of a longer train. Frankly, I was always more concerned about the walk from the station to home, or the station to school, than I was about stuff going on in the subways themselves.
April 16th, 2008 09:09 PM
I've been to the city several times, both back in the late 80's to early 90's and again over the past five years. I have to say that NYC today is so much cleaner and safer than it was in the 80's. Back then if you stopped at the wrong stoplight, you'd find your car surrounded by skinheads carrying bats and chains. We had it happen to us, and we took off, running the light.
Today there is a very visible police presence all over, and not every subway station smells like urine, only some of them.
But the real key to safety in the Big Apple is stay in downtown Manhattan and only go out during the day.
April 16th, 2008 11:00 PM
Have taken the subway only 3 timesin my life. Will take the L.I.R.R into Penn then a taxi.
April 16th, 2008 11:36 PM
I take NYC subway every day and live on the upper west side. ANYONE: Please PM me if you need NYC directions or have a questions. Happy to help. If you are really lame, I can even meet you and hold your hand so you don't get lost.
It is true it can get dangerous quickly. The problem is there is no buffer between you and the people around you. On the highway, we all drive through rough neighborhoods, but are insulated from them. In the subway, rough people get on and off at every stop and you sometimes have to stand inches away from them.
That being said, the chances of any serious issue is very small and I feel extremely safe around my apartment (West 80's). In my 4 years here, i have seen 2 fist fights on the subway. Near 168st on the #1 train and 59th on #1. Even when the fights did happen, you must realize there were 50 other good people around. The scarier thing was the mob of people trying to move to the next car!
#5 train to 149 puts you in the bronx. Not the safest place to be at 10 pm in the evening. Not awful, but not great. The construction really messed up the trains this past weekend. I know what you mean.
Tips: Know where you are going. Check the website for construction or service changes on the train you want to take (especially weekends or late at night). Keep good awareness whenever you are on the train. Be polite to everyone. Don't put your wallet or ipod in loose pockets. There is little cell service in the tunnels. There is a conductor in the middle of the train who can radio police. Response time is average of 6 min. There is an emergency brake on the end of each car (don't pull it- it will just stop you in the tunnel). The newer cars (maybe 1/3 of them) have an emergency intercom that connects you with the conductor.
Something happens here in NYC that most people are not used to that they should prepare themselves for: You cannot move anywhere because there are people everywhere! (its like a traffic jam, but with bodies of people not cars) It happens when you get off the train and people go through a narrow exit or staircase... It is possible this sort of thing would happen in a "normal place's" fire or emergency exit type situation. You should mentally prepare yourself to handle this sort of situation...
oh yea, and there are a lot of undercover NYPD officers around. It's fairly common and effective here.
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
April 17th, 2008 05:49 AM
Thanks for the insight. 149th was the last transfer to the 2.
I get to the city several times yearly, most of the time driving to the S. BX. I work for the RR and took the train this time. I think even if I knew of the weekend routing, I still would have gone. I should've left home earlier though.
I have conquered the challange of driving in NYC (Manhattan/BX) and enjoy learning the subway. I took the 5 (shoulda taken the 2) from Montefiore Hosp, and ended up in Grand central (oops). I got unlost no mistakes, in time for the ride home. Those light strips on the car wall really make a difference.
We've been tempted to live in NYC. I'd get fat fast on fish markets, pork rinds, zepolies, and pizza. But incidents like this last one give this country boy second thoughts. And I can't carry there.
April 17th, 2008 10:03 PM
I've only been to NYC once....never again. the words I have to descibe that @%&%# place aren't fit to use around civilized people. just my 2c.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moratati
April 18th, 2008 10:09 AM
My first time spent in NYC was in the late seventies, (summer of '78), but I actually worked out on the Island (as a bouncer at Hammerhead's), and lived there as well. Spent a lot of time in the city though. Things were really rough back then. (They even made a movie about it "The Warriors" that was made right around the time I was there because it was the big movie playing at the time.).
I've been back probably a hundred times since - including three trips this year already and two more booked for May. Things have changed there over the years ... I gotta give Rudy credit for that one.
Used to see a lot of problems riding the subway ... but the last few years I have seen none, although I rarely ride it anylonger except when I have to. I use cabs, stay uptown and rarely get out of walking distance of where I need to be except once in a blue moon or to meet someone for dinner, etc.
I still hate it when one of the local trains go down and you have to switch ... I usually have to ask locals for help at that point, but they are always friendly and helpful, especially with my Southern accent.
I gotta admit, I always look forward to my NYC business trips these days - and my wife even likes to go with me so that she can hit Canal Street (now, there are problems there), or 5th Ave.
I haven't witnessed any problems in the subways though, in years and years. Or Central Park for that matter. I always stay over at 7th and west 53rd ... know several of the guys at the desk ... always enjoy my trips up there these days.
You were really getting into the Harlem area if you went all the way up to 149th though. I have not been that far uptown in a long time ... it may be different that far up and maybe I've been spoiled staying in the area I frequent for the past decade.
What you think about, you do ... what you do, you become.
April 21st, 2008 06:38 PM
Never been to NYC. But after having been to Chicago, I've no desire to.
Better to die quick, fighting on your feet;
Than to live forever, begging on your knees.
April 22nd, 2008 10:29 AM
This applies in so many cases that I read posts about people worried about the wrong place. For instance I may be crazy but I suspect the probability of an incident it 10 times as great walking to or from the Wal-Mart store as it will ever be in the store itself. Same way with a mall or restaurant. All three of my children are attending college working on various degrees and I suspect that the probability of them getting attacked on the way to class is 100 times as great as ever being attacked in class by a deranged gunman.
Originally Posted by Hopyard
We dream up all these ultimate scenarios to work out how to defend ourselves and forget about the simple most common ones.
April 25th, 2008 04:38 PM
I could never live in NYC. I hate all the people and feeling like you're inside all of the time. Plus, I wouldn't be able to carry there. And two of my guns would be felonies to possess there. Lame!
That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?
April 25th, 2008 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=nutz4utwo;696679] You cannot move anywhere because there are people everywhere! (its like a traffic jam, but with bodies of people not cars) It happens when you get off the train and people go through a narrow exit or staircase... It is possible this sort of thing would happen in a "normal place's" fire or emergency exit type situation. You should mentally prepare yourself to handle this sort of situation...[QUOTE]
I couldn't live there.
April 26th, 2008 04:38 PM
The longest 3 days of my life was spent in NYC.
I felt like I was just released from a big, dirty, crowded, nasty prison when I flew out of JFK and headed for home.
April 26th, 2008 08:56 PM
I visit every couple of years, and I actually love it there. Me and my family always have a great time, but then again I have always carried there (legally-federal).
But here is one interesting story for you. In 2002 a few months after 9-11, we were on a subway (couldn't tell you which one), and 4 very large black/males enter the car as it's trying to close and hold it open. One guy is holding it open for the other three. All 4 stand in the center and just start eyeballing everyone very menacingly. I give me wife a nudge, as we are only about 10 feet away. I am carrying in a shoulder holster, and unsnap it as quietly as I can.
Then one of the men says "Can I have your attention please?". By now my pistol has cleared the holster and is almost out of my jacket. Then one of the guys reach into one of his pockets and pulls out...a pitch pipe. You know, the thing you blow through to get a certain note so you can start singing.
Then they all break out into song.
Glad my gun didn't clear my jacket.
And I gave a ten dollar bill I was so relieved.
"Nice grips, weird choice of etching" Rocky
April 26th, 2008 10:00 PM
LMOA at the pitch pipe. If I was young, single and had plenty of money I would love to live in NYC for at least a while. Since none of the three apply to me I am going to have to pass on livning there.
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