Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved?

This is a discussion on Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The laser sights will help in close quarters self-defense (3 or 4 feet away) because in order to keep your gun out of the BG's ...

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Thread: Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved?

  1. #16
    Member Array tamworth's Avatar
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    The laser sights will help in close quarters self-defense (3 or 4 feet away) because in order to keep your gun out of the BG's reach you'll be hip-shooting. But be sure not to use any lasers as an extra warning. You want to draw your weapon and then immediately shoot or not shoot. Using the laser as an extra warning causes you to hesitate. In the chance that the BG doesn't see the laser, this hesitation will get you killed. Also in the case of the LEO taking his time to flash the BG's face with the laser, in my opinion that is very foolish. There's TWO risks you're taking with using the laser sight as a warning: the BG doesn't see it, or the BG does see it but doesn't care. Hesitation in these two circumstances is life threatening.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Magilla82ABN's Avatar
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    The only time that I have heard of my father using his CT was to annoy the cats at the house.
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Well trained ones dont.

    I know of a few LEO shootings that the officers pistol was equipped, but never was turned on prior to shooting.

    Why would you have such disdain for this device? I could see the confusion arising if there were 10 or 15 of these turned on at once, as in a DEA raid or something.

    What's the reason they are so bad?

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    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    I've noticed when watching COPS, that a lot of the TASERS have laser sights. I guess they can't be all that bad. I'm guessing the main reason they did that was so the officers can "hip shoot" the suspect.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post

    What's the reason they are so bad?

    -
    Why do I hate lasers?

    Because I've watched person after person waste their hard earned cash because a silly advertisement told them it will make them a better shooter.
    Sure, a person might see some better scores using a laser than without... but that just tells me that the person doesnt know what they are doing with a pistol in the first place; they should have spent that money getting quality instruction/range time improving their pistol craft instead of trying to mask problems with a gimmick.

    Furthermore, because they dont do a darn thing a decent shooter could or should be able to do without. I dont care what anybody says, they slow the process down. They make for nothing more than a electronic crutch that hinders the learning curve of new shooters and makes the vets lazy and develops poor pistol craft.

    I've spent my entire adult life on the pistol ranges teaching both military/LEO and civilian shooters how to combat shoot... I will never endorse a laser as long as I live. Been there done that... I've watched gimmicks come and go... lasers IMO are the biggest farce in the gun industry.

    Show me a top shooting school that advocates the use of a laser...not one that simply accepts sponsership dollars from CT or the others, but one that will really honestly say a laser is the way to go.
    Show me a first class real world operator that uses a laser. I havent found one.

    Tasers... apples and oranges. Think about how a Taser is deployed, its purpose and how it works vs. a pistol. You will find your answer to that question in there.

    I know I just opened a can of worms, but that is my opinion based on experiance and first hand personal knowledge. I'm not looking for a laser debate, its not worth the effort of typing. I'll also bet that the vast majority of those who try and start a debate with me will do so by trying to defend and justify a purchase they have made, rather than the merits of a laser itself.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #21
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    It could have been Sighting in with ShootingUSA - This one:

    Sighting In With Shooting USA - The Guns of The Light and Laser Invitational
    What did the Pros choose to use? We’ll profile the guns, the lights and the lasers each selected for the match. Then we’re taking you inside Crimson Trace for the story of a great idea that saved a struggling company.
    Plus Todd Jarrett shows you & SIXTO how to use a laser to get the hits that are not possible with normal sights.




    Hey...don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.
    I'm best guessing my source was Michael Bane - DownrangeTV Shooting Gallery at the CT factory.

    Here is his BIO Click Here

    Send him an E-mail and ask him.


    Hey SIXTO The U.S. Marines in Iraq just read your post and they're getting rid of all of their Laser sights now.

    Just joshing with you SIXTO.

    I actually think it's a pretty helpful tool.
    I use mine exclusively for my 1911 (in home and at work) close-in point and hip shooting dryfire practice as an instant and accurate verification that I'm still hitting right where I'm looking.
    Since I normally grip my pistol quite tightly I had to "jury rig" the integral "ON" switch on the frontstrap since it was initially way too sensitive.
    That (of course) has voided my warranty but, I really don't care.
    For my practice I didn't want the red dot "ON" until after I pulled the trigger.
    So now I can pretty much use my normal firm grip pressure, clear leather and "get off the shot" - then verify my intended POI just by keeping the gun still and quickly/slightly increasing my normal grip pressure.

    I could probably have accomplished about the same thing with an AirSoft but, the feel, weight, and balance of the AirSoft guns are different.
    The AS trigger is very different and I would rather do my indoor exercises with my daily carry.
    So it's proved useful for my idiosyncratic purpose.
    I was hesitant to spend the $$$ on one and then discover that I had to do a "forced modification" on it in order to adapt it to my specific purpose for practice but, I'm glad that I did.
    I just couldn't see constantly sweeping up little green plastic pellets all over my hardwood floors.
    Last edited by QKShooter; April 22nd, 2008 at 03:32 AM.

  8. #22
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    From the CT site.
    I just want to add to the information provided above that the testimonials for CT are not anonymous and do have names attached to them.


    Crimson Trace Lasergrips add precision aiming capabilities to Smith & Wesson handguns without adding weight or bulk.

    - Bob Scott, Vice-Chairman of the Board, Smith & Wesson


    In the past, I had a total disregard for lasers. But, after testing and evaluation them, I now have Crimson Trace Lasergrips on my personal guns.

    - Ken Hackathorn, International Small Arms Instructor


    For low light and dark, Lasergrips are a tool that I don't want to be without. By the time I had 300-400 rounds down range, I got to the point where I could trust that wherever the dot was, the bullet would go.
    - Mike Dalton, IDPA Steel Challenge Champion, Police Officer and Director of International Shootists Institute
    ISI and Steel Challenge Home Page


    Defending my family and myself is my responsibility to God for His precious gift of life. I keep and bear arms accordingly, and the Crimson Trace laser sighting system optimizes my capabilities to survive. It's quality stuff for quality of life.
    - Ted Nugent, President of United Sportsmen of America, Author and Musician


    I have been using the CTC grips as a major part of my personal and professional training since 1998. Over the years it has become very clear that they give me options in dynamic tactical shooting situations that I cannot get from any other tool. I consider my Lasergrips a key advantage that I would not go into harm's way without.
    - Ernest Langdon, President, Langdon Tactical Technologies, IDPA Champion and USMC Sniper Instructor
    gun safety tactial training glasses at langdontactical.com
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  9. #23
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    And everything posted above is from CT, and quotes from people sponsered by CT... take it with a grain of salt.

    I'm sure Tiger Woods really drives a Buick too, he has such nice things to say about Buicks, its hard to imagine him not driving one. My golf game is lacking these days, I better go pick up a new Buick so my scores improve.

    Todd Jarrett and Bane- excellent shooters for sure, but also being paid by CT to sell products. They are exhibition shooters that sell product (lasers) to the unsuspecting public that eats everything "tactical" up that they see on PDTV/DRTV. They have to support their shooting, and companies pay them to wear their T-Shirts and talk about their products publicly.

    The Marines...thats a whole other topic about why they have what they have and use what they use. I'll open that can of worms soon enough, as I'm sure what I have to say about that will upset some of the more fragile minds.
    Last edited by SIXTO; April 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 PM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #24
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    LOL
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    And everything posted above is from CT, and quotes from people sponsered by CT... take it with a grain of salt.

    I'm sure Tiger Woods really drives a Buick too, he has such nice things to say about Buicks, its hard to imagine him not driving one.

    Todd Jarrett and Bane- excellent shooters for sure, but also being paid by CT to sell products. They are exhibition shooters that sell product (lasers) to the unsuspecting public that eats everything "tactical" up that they see on PDTV/DRTV. They have to support there shooting, and companies pay them to wear their T-Shirts and talk about their products publicly.

    The Marines...thats a whole other topic about why they have what they have and use what they use. I'll open that can of worms soon enough, as I'm sure what I have to say about that will upset some of the more fragile minds.

    I think SIXTO has laser envy. I feel that those who discredit the usefullness of lasers are the ones who feel that if the general public can use a tool to improve there accuracy then professional instructors will be losing there students. I put one in my wifes xd9sc anything that makes her more comfortable in shooting is a plus . If its a mere $200 dollars to get her to practice with and carry her gun. It is money well spent.
    CCWINNC

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  12. #26
    Member Array jhfox462's Avatar
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    One of the concerns I have had with getting them is what would a prosecuter say? "if you had a laser, why not shoot the gun out of their hand or shoot them in the knee"
    Does anyone else think this?
    Benjamin Franklin once said, "he that would supplant a little liberty for a little safety deserves neither".

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWINNC View Post
    I think SIXTO has laser envy. I feel that those who discredit the usefullness of lasers are the ones who feel that if the general public can use a tool to improve there accuracy then professional instructors will be losing there students. I put one in my wifes xd9sc anything that makes her more comfortable in shooting is a plus . If its a mere $200 dollars to get her to practice with and carry her gun. It is money well spent.
    Please!
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #28
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    Come On Let's Get This Pot Stirred Up



    Handgun Laser Sights Increase Hits

    “Over the last few years, I have had opportunity to watch shooters of every skill level work out with pistols equipped with laser sights.
    It has been my observation that most shooters, using the laser-equipped handguns, tend to perform to a higher standard.

    “Well, that’s at the range. What about the real world? According to Clyde Caceres of Crimson Trace Corporation, in a recent year, police officers using laser-equipped handguns achieved a 90+ percent hit rate in actual gunfights. As best as can be determined, police officers [normally] hit what they are shooting at about 20 percent of the time. Anything that can increase success so dramatically deserves consideration.”

    Mike Boyle



    Target Acquisition found on PoliceOne.com
    This is what Crimson Trace in BOLD italics is basing their percentage stats on.
    The page is copyrighted so I'm not pasting it all but, it can be found here:
    The great persuader:


    First let's talk about accuracy under stress. Crimson Trace says that out of the seven documented shootings involving Laser Grips 35 rounds were fired with 33 hits. That's a ratio of around 94 percent, and it isn''t too bad. The national average hovers around the 20 percent mark.

    Shooting experts believe the hit count goes up so dramatically when officers use lasers because the lasers give the officers a tool to overcome the body's physiological response to stress, allowing them to accurately respond. We are conditioned by survival instinct to look at the threat, but we teach officers to look at the tips of their guns. Since we really don't have a choice other than to attempt resistance to natural stress reactions, experts believe it's very beneficial to have a projected red dot in the area we are going to look at anyway.

    Another benefit of laser sights is they can't be beat for low-light shooting. In a low-light encounter, at times officers have a hard time even picking up their sights let alone efficiently using them. They will, however, be able to see the laser.

    Hitting a moving target is another advantage of laser sights. A medium-sized sheriff's department on the West Coast has observed that when its SWAT deputies were equipped with laser sights, the deputies shot dramatically better on the move, even when the target was also moving.
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  15. #29
    Member Array Airborne Falcon's Avatar
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    They must be being used quite often in real life because I see them being used all the time in the movies! My favorite was in Predator ... or wait, make that Terminator ... wait wait, Eraser - yeah, that's my favorite.

    That Arnold guy - he sure knows how to use them thar lasers.
    What you think about, you do ... what you do, you become.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Well, my nightstand gun is my trusty .45 cal IPSC gun that I probably have 10,000 (or more) handloaded rounds through. I could comfortably (and rapidly) fire this gun and reload it while blindfolded. I might not hit much, lol, but my point is - I'm very familiar with this particular weapon.

    While it does not have laser sights, it would seem to make sense to add them. A late night, low-light civilian situation would make it difficult to visually pick up the iron sights; I'd be shooting by instinct. It seems to me that a laser would allow me to expand my visual awareness. Additionally, if the BG in my house sees a bright red dot (bouncing around on the wall or on his chest) then common sense tells me most BG's would retreat at that point. My goal is to NEVER have to shoot anyone, thus I think the laser is a good deterrent as well as a handy aiming aid. Just MHO of course.
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

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