Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved? - Page 4

Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved?

This is a discussion on Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO This would be great if things happen like they do on T.V., but they dont. Gun fights happen quickly, they are ...

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Thread: Any gun fights you've heard of with laser sights involved?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    This would be great if things happen like they do on T.V., but they dont. Gun fights happen quickly, they are ugly and violent beyond my ability to articulate... and they are over before they even begin.
    I fail to see how a gunfight could be over before the laser had a chance to reach the target.

    speed of laser: approx 300,000,000 meters per second
    speed of bullet: approx 300 meters per second

    I also find it hard to believe that a gunfight is over before it even begins. It seems for something to be over before it begins it would have to be traveling faster than light, and we already said that the bullet is 1,000,000 times slower than light.

    Look, lasers aren't perfect, we know that. It's not the best way to become an expert with a sidearm. But not everybody has the time, discipline, stamina, physical conditioning, and perseverance to be a Sixto. If an electronic crutch can help people hit a target that they otherwise might not be able to, then they should use it.

    Maybe they just want it so their sidearm can serve them in multiple ways(i.e. cat toy, slide show pointer, defensive tool, etc.).
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  2. #47
    Member Array DistantHorizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Maybe they just want it so their sidearm can serve them in multiple ways(i.e. cat toy, slide show pointer, defensive tool, etc.).
    Only with a revolver, for playing russian roulette with kitty!

    Of course I'm serious!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I fail to see how a gunfight could be over before the laser had a chance to reach the target.
    It’s the human element that takes the to much time, not the laser itself… you have to get the gun out, laser on, verify, find the dot, find the target, steady… aim….fire, instead of out, index and fire.

    By me saying its over before it begins, I simply mean that action is always faster than reaction. If you are not the fastest shooter, you will be the coldest. Most gunfights are a one sided affair; with the loser barely having enough time to realize what just happened.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I fail to see how a gunfight could be over before the laser had a chance to reach the target.
    IMHO that is not what was said . What was said is that if you survive you will be at the curb saying crap ... what just happened ?? . You will literally live or die based or reactions to fast to forsee . another reason to not go into details right now . THAT post had nothing to do with lasers , lack of same , your tender mindset ect.. That is fact , i will shy away from saying it from someone who has been in a shootout simply because i dont know , have not asked and will not , However i will say this i have been in gunfight(s) . and i score myself as won 2 tied one ( this is shots fired by ME scoring ) . I like nightsights myself , however that dont make a laser a bad choice for you . IMHO lasers are great training tools , however they are not reliable as sighing methods . ( not that i ever had the opportunity to use said lol ). Ill stand with six tho that one needs a skillset and a laser is not a shortcut for that . The offer of gramma was put out there , and lets think about " gramma " for a bit . gramma buys ( name you pistol here ) and under duress due to today or because that is what grandpa has ( you may have to work with either ) , however both are fine for her . hmm i have lots more to say and on reflection i need to make a post of it so the mods can approve it rather than hunt up threads . the post will be " grammy with guns " not night sight stuff.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  5. #50
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamworth View Post
    d. Also in the case of the LEO taking his time to flash the BG's face with the laser, in my opinion that is very foolish. There's TWO risks you're taking with using the laser sight as a warning: the BG doesn't see it, or the BG does see it but doesn't care. Hesitation in these two circumstances is life threatening.
    I'm not LEO but I bet the majority will disagree. A LEO can't kill someone just because he sees them reaching under the seat. The BG's definitely have the advantage in court and in the street.

    Hell LEOS seem to have to yell at them about at the bad guys to drop it, 10 times even when they have a gun in their hand as long as they aren't aiming at the LEO.

  6. #51
    Member Array Dusty Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    I like the LaserMax quotes. They are pretty meaningless. They are from no-named people about no-named incidents, in no-named places. In short, they can't be verified.
    Therefore somebody is a liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesy_26 View Post
    I tried his gun out at the end of class, and the laser seemed to help on target aqcuisition on the initial shot,

    Well, that IS the most important one, is it not?

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Why do I hate lasers?

    Because I've watched person after person waste their hard earned cash because a silly advertisement told them it will make them a better shooter.
    Sure, a person might see some better scores using a laser than without... but that just tells me that the person doesnt know what they are doing with a pistol in the first place; they should have spent that money getting quality instruction/range time improving their pistol craft instead of trying to mask problems with a gimmick.
    Well, 84 yr. old Mr. Miller from down the street who can't drive and whose eyes are not what they used to be thinks his laser sight is just the cat's meow. As a matter of fact, MY eyes are not what they used to be and on top of that I just do not have that many extra hours to spend becoming a top notch shot using open sights and the training I've investigated is beyond my budget. Get the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKelly View Post
    This bothers me a bit...

    If LEO is drawing on someone he should be preparing to fire, not "scare" the suspect.
    I'm no expert on LEO use of firearms but my guess is they'd rather not pull that trigger unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary and therefore most likely hold their fire much longer than most of us would. If there's ANYTHING that can be used to convince the BG to break off the confrontation they'll use it (there are, of course, some will known exceptions to the rule, i.e. Ruby Ridge).

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Miller View Post
    Well, 84 yr. old Mr. Miller from down the street who can't drive and whose eyes are not what they used to be thinks his laser sight is just the cat's meow. As a matter of fact, MY eyes are not what they used to be and on top of that I just do not have that many extra hours to spend becoming a top notch shot using open sights and the training I've investigated is beyond my budget. Get the picture?
    Yeah, I got the picture... my eyesight is fine.

    You are missing the point... in a real world shoot out, you're not going to see the sights, laser or standard fixed sights. You're going to see your target over top of the gun. Thats it. I've been there, done that got the picture autographed and framed here on my office wall.

    Sometimes people make it a lot harder than it really is, but if gadget makes you feel better, than so be it. Like I said before, I really dont care what you have hanging off your gun, its not my hide.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #53
    Member Array Dusty Miller's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=SIXTO;701723] If you are not the fastest shooter, you will be the coldest. [QUOTE]


    So that FIRST SHOT is all important I guess. Hmmmm!

  9. #54
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    [QUOTE=Dusty Miller;702045][QUOTE=SIXTO;701723] If you are not the fastest shooter, you will be the coldest.


    So that FIRST SHOT is all important I guess. Hmmmm!

    Yeah... it is. So whats the point you're trying to make?

    Your wheel's spinning, but the hamster is dead...come back and engage me in a debate when the hamster is up and running again.
    Last edited by SIXTO; April 23rd, 2008 at 07:28 AM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #55
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    Well, to answer the OP, I know of some, but not with CT's or pistols.

    A few times I see lasers (like whats sittin atop my M16-A4 as useful) although for most civilians it is a moot point.
    When using NVG's. It is easier to see a an IR dot a 200 yards at night with NGV's than try to use an ACOG with the NVG's. And the ACOG with just night vision isn't the greatest.

    When popping corners with my off hand. Better control and able to put less of me around the corner.

    As far as CQB, when I run shoot houses most of the time I don't like the laser being on, I find it distracting, At room distance with a good combat stance point shooting is a breeze with the 16.

    Just a few thoughts, as far as lasers on handguns, I don't have any, and the only pistol I'd thing about putting one on is my 638. Likewise, I'm not gonna put any on my long guns either.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  11. #56
    BAC
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    I'm no vet of anything beyond a few traded swings in high school, but the arguments/comparisons of lasers used in self-defense to the lasers used by Marines and to the two-handed v. one-handed pistol grip are irrelevant arguments for the topic... one has to do with a tool for war (which are IR, as I recall), the other has to do with a proven manuever. The laser civilians are using for self-defense aren't the ones the Marines use, and the lasers themselves aren't (read: are not) a proven mechanism for increasing the shooting capability of the user. I think Double Naught Spy had it right earlier when he discussed the anonymous 'credentials' given to these products. Might be the psych student in me, but show me hard data and let me draw my own conclusions.


    -B

  12. #57
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    Well to be fair, the laser device on Marines rifles these days does have a normal red dot laser as well as the IR laser. Although the red dot sees less use, but I have buddies that like it for CQB.

    Bottom line, if you have a crappy trigger pull/basics then a laser won't help anyway, although there are given situations where one can help.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  13. #58
    BAC
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    Gotcha. Seen the units but never got to play with 'em (actually, was told specifically not to...).


    -B

  14. #59
    Ex Member Array Daniella's Avatar
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    What is the difference between the green and the red laser?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Well to be fair, the laser device on Marines rifles these days does have a normal red dot laser as well as the IR laser. Although the red dot sees less use, but I have buddies that like it for CQB.

    Bottom line, if you have a crappy trigger pull/basics then a laser won't help anyway, although there are given situations where one can help.
    I've got an IR device mounted on my M4 ... but it is practical for night time use only.

    I did have an LEO tell me last night that he uses his laser to subdue bad guys. He said, and I paraphrase, "When a bad guy sees that little red dot on his chest, he knows it is all over and that the next move he makes could be his last."

    He also told me that his unit's Tazers are equipped with laser sighting devices for exactly the same reason. He says he uses them in domestic disputes all the time to calm down the rowdy person (usually a large male) ... and that when they see that little red dot on their body, thanks to the movies I guess, it has an instant calming effect.
    What you think about, you do ... what you do, you become.

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