April 30th, 2008 09:44 AM
You never know. Those three NYPD cops just got not guilty verdicts re shooting they engaged in, but a jury could just as easily have handed them guilty verdicts. We can never say what a jury would or would not do, can never count on it. That is one of the scariest parts of our criminal justice system. You can be totally in the right re self defense and if a jury doesn't buy it? Even if it is clear? That is the end of it for you. Even in states where they do protect citizens. What comes to mind is the two Border Patrol agents in Texas, still serving time. Just because everyone agrees with what they did, including me, they are still behind bars because a jury did not see it our way. We do not realize how often it happens that what we never thought a jury would do---they end up doing.
April 30th, 2008 09:53 AM
Ironic that the common understanding of "reasonable" (as evidenced by jury verdicts) so frequently ends up to be unreasonable. The sad truth is, common sense isn't so common, any longer.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
April 30th, 2008 10:04 AM
I think you're right. Things are so different nowadays that you really can't count on anything to happen that should happen. It is so unpredictable. You could definitely do the right thing and yet still be convicted. And good luck once the jury verdict comes in, as most appeals are just on matters of law only, not the facts of the case. I tell defendants that I would not trust a juror to go across the street and bring me back a tuna sandwich because they just might bring back a pizza instead. And I am serious. I cannot think of a good alternative to the jury system in our country but a lot of people think they are sure that a jury will do the right thing in any given scenario. And that is just not so. I have had people tell me that a jury could never find them guilty. Because they evidence is on their side. And I tell them that all it takes for a guilty verdict is for the jurors to come back to this courtroom and say that you are guilty. It is really scary and it has a chilling effect on whether a guy goes to trial or not, because if you lose a jury trial, jail time is real likely. So in these clearcut self defense situations and scenarios we might know we are correct in what we did or would do, but that is never a guarantee that six or twelve folks will find in our favor. So you will not necessarily be backed up by the court system even though you were in the right.
April 30th, 2008 10:06 AM
And when we see police officers on trial for justified shootings, that is really the beginning of the end, in my opinion.
April 30th, 2008 12:05 PM
I only read the first page, but here are my thoughts if anyone is interested...
If somebody comes up to you with a knife, gun, baseball bat, whatever... and demands that you give them your wallet, you are not defending property, you are defending yourself against a lethal threat.
If you come home to see a guy 2 houses down fleeing with your TV, you would be defending property if you went after him.
They are two totally different things and should be handled accordingly. In AZ, if I chased the TV guy in my car and got out and shot him, I would end up in prison. If I shot a guy trying to rob me at gunpoint, I would not. It seems like a pretty cut and dry thing if you ask me...
May 7th, 2008 12:30 PM
Too many variables to honestly say...
If multiple armed turds were able to approach me and my family with out my spider sense tingling (which isn't easy) to rob me...I'd probably comply and give them my wallet and watch etc. i would never risk my families safety.
Alone, might be a different story.
To err is human.
To forgive is divine.
Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.
"It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)
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