This could have turned out different.

This could have turned out different.

This is a discussion on This could have turned out different. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sportcat on THR posted this today (I quote verbatim) and to me it exemplifies what we so often talk about - the need to carry ...

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Thread: This could have turned out different.

  1. #1
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    This could have turned out different.

    Sportcat on THR posted this today (I quote verbatim) and to me it exemplifies what we so often talk about - the need to carry regardless of how safe we may think a time and place may be.

    I fully expect - had this guy, the victim - been carrying and in sensible yellow - it would have been a dead punk instead of him.
    It was my brother-in-law's, fiance's uncle. We didn't know the man, but went to support the family.

    He and his wife had gone out Thursday night to get some take-out. They placed the order and then went back out to their car to wait. A few minutes later the husband went back in to get his food, went back out to his car and was approached by a "poor disadvantaged youth."

    Apparently the BG asked for money and a struggle ensued. The victim was shot once in the chest and fell back into the car. The scum then shot the victim in the head. When the victim was falling back into the car he was able to grab a chain off of the BG. After the shooting the BG jumped into a waiting car that had two other "poor disadvantaged youth" in it. The police linked the chain to a local gang.

    The entire time this happened the victim's wife was in the car.

    He was only 44.

    This morning I heard there was another robbery at the same location last night. Thankfully no one was physically injured.

    It really pisses me off these scumbags believe they have right to take property and life from others.

    While the shooting and robbery happened on the other side of town, the "bad side," it has only reinforced that fact that you still carry wherever you go and be prepared.

    Funeral is a 3:00p today, please say a prayer for the widow and her 21-year-old daughter.
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161098
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Yeah i read that earlyer not sure even with a firarm what you could have done

  3. #3
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    What I was envisaging Bud was - had the guy been carrying and alert - he could or would have seen this coming.

    He could have had a hand on his piece as soon as he saw a potential threat and maybe then drawn quick enough to have saved himself - sure might have given him a chance - doncha think?
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #4
    New Member Array RG in Idaho's Avatar
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    Or, his wife might have opted to carry...

  5. #5
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    That could have helped - but maybe only to have avoided the BG's ''coup de grace'' to victim's head.

    I still think had he himself been carrying this might have turned out way better.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Indeed, the firearm is most definitely a force multiplier and a powerful deterrant. P95 is right, this could have been very different. Very sad state of affairs.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Yes it probley could have helped if he had a gun but it might not its hard to tell with out being there im getting more and more liek that everyday i guess unless im there its hard to say what if..

    ive been in a spot where there was nothing i could do untill it was to late im sure we all have maybe this was one of those deals i always pay attn to my surroundings but it is still possible to be ambushed no matter how alert you are..


    His best bet would have been to head back into the place he got food from and called the cops at first sign of trouble i know for sure if it was me i would have gone down shooting but not everbody has that luxery i guess...


    It late and im in one of them werid moods dont mind me

  8. #8
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    Cannot say if being armed would have helped or not, but it would not have hurt him any to be armed. If there is a chance to defend yourself, ya need the means.

  9. #9
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    Sad story.

    I would back it up even more. The wife should not have been in the vehicle waiting. Never leave a target in a parking lot. This removes the option of heading in another direction. They have your wife essentially. My wife knows this and the only time she waits in the vehicle is when I am fueling the vehicle.

    I think being armed would have helped for one big reason. As we have all noticed on this board, being armed makes us very aware of our surroundings. We also tend to act a certain way because we have made the decision to take responsibility for ourselves and our protection. Had this man been carrying a gun he might be alive today and he likely would not have had to use his gun. On the one hand because he would have acted differently and likely wouldn't have been selected for attack, and or he would have been aware enough to avoid the entire situation.

    -Scott-

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    As i have stated somewhere else in this forum,how "ready can you be" ? A potential threat starts approaching you. No weapon visable. He starts talking _hit. Your family is in the car so you can't run or duck for cover. He has his hand in his pocket but,as yet,no verbal threat has been made. How close do you let him come. You CAN'T shoot a man for the above actions. You can reach up under and find your grips but you can't draw. Think of all the possibilities. Where do you draw the line? This is one of the hardest questions that I have to try to answer from my students. There is no simple answer. Every case is different. Almost everything is a grey area. The BG(or potential BG) hasn't done enough for you to present your weapon,but he is getting very close to you and starting to get annoyed that you just told him that you can't "loan" him a cig cuz you don't smoke. Now what ???? -----------

  11. #11
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    I can agree with those who say a gun may not have helped - I guess I see this as maybe a 50/50 if he had been armed - no guarantee of course.... just a better chance.

    As ever yes - circumstances alter events and it is always easy to predict or presume from comfort of our chair! It occurred to me tho that if he had been armed and was still approached by punk demanding money - there was a small envelope of time when he could have acted or at least prepared.

    First change to orange might have been approach of punk. Soon as demands made (which were probably/seemingly before punk produces gun) - then red, bright red. Perhaps at that point as a good guy goes to contact his piece pre any presentation - punk rethinks, or he draws and then game on.

    As with all scenarios we have discussed both real or imaginary - this does make us think again and even consideration of it perhaps does help just enough that we might manage better if faced with the same.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array SOLOLUCKY's Avatar
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    WOW i agree with all that has been said mostly how sad this situation is and again monday morning quarterbacking is easy but i wonder the "legalities" of an issue.
    now i tend to agree with P95 all the time. you seem very much a "thinker" and we have some things in common, both ride MC's & carry so it seems like i could know you. i just wonder what would happen...the youth approaches you, ya go from orange to glowing orange, he asks for money, smokes, whatever. ya got a "bad" feeling, grab the grip of yer gun, at this point "no foul". if ya pull it and it was an honest youth just askin' for a smoke did ya just open up the proverbial can o' worms? unfortunatley prolly "yes".

    again monday morning quarterbacking and it would happen so fast probably things would just flow. but that line is sooooo gray it could be easy to overstep i'd think. but letting the Law think for ya could get ya killed.

    thoughts?
    R1

    This is mine. That is yours.

    Lets keep it that way.

  13. #13
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    Solo - as I think I said or implied - for many of us a ''spidey sense'' should have kicked in when approached - that stage would have been the part with most thinking time I'd say - different from an out and out attack with a gun from get go.

    This in itself might have us right hand twitching, in readiness to place on hip or in pocket - in fact here is maybe a classic case where a pocket revo would really score - ready to fire but still concealed!

    Anyways - I still think that properly handled (whatever that is LOL) - this scenario could have gone on balance to the good guy had he been carrying - plus not to forget - his wife in the car (and yes, not such a good idea in some areas) - had she been armed would probably at very least have prevented her husband from receiving the coup de grace.

    We can speculate of course ad infinitum

    Oh and Solo - me a thinker? Yep, sometimes too much methinks! . To a fellow CCW and biker - stay safe
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array dpesec's Avatar
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    Well I don't know if a pistol would have helped, but I know 99.9% of the time I carry. The only time I don't is when I'm teaching a class in our local Maximum Security Prison. My SO doesn't like guns, but tolerates my carrying. She know how to use one, but still doesn't like them.
    The wife could have been in deep stuff if the BG had moved on her. So if something happens to me, mine would be able to defend herself with my pistol or the trunk rifle, if needed.

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