Teen TXTS "They're in the house!"

This is a discussion on Teen TXTS "They're in the house!" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bark'n In my opinion, the person merely exiting the home in your original post (running or otherwise) exhibited none of those factors. ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39

Thread: Teen TXTS "They're in the house!"

  1. #16
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    In my opinion, the person merely exiting the home in your original post (running or otherwise) exhibited none of those factors.

    Hey, thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

    Regarding the shoot/don't shoot part of the OP:

    My gut reaction was to shoot. As I said, I see now that's an emotional response ("My kid is in danger!!") rather than a clear-headed defense response.

    I'll have to think about that one quite a bit. I see your point well--the perp running out of the house indicates the threat is over.

    What troubles me personally is that I don't see is whether or not my child is safe inside or harmed. Frankly, I'm probably so ratcheted up at that moment because I know my kid has just told me that there are invaders in the house, that one appears to be running straight at me, and I have no idea (but logically assume) that said invader is intent upon doing me harm.

    Again, a pretty emotional response. I'm just not sure how to get over that. Perhaps the "right" response would be to wait for the police to clear the house. But I'm there now, and that's my kid inside.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mid-Cape Cod, Mass.
    Posts
    861
    We just posted at exactly the same time again.

  4. #18
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    You don't know if the person that ran out may of heard screams and was investigating or heard a cry for help etc.
    Yeah . . . another good point I hadn't thought of.

    Holy crap . . . what do you do when it actually all hits the fan? You've got seconds--fractions of seconds, actually--to make all these decisions, and so far I've made a fair number of wrong ones in this scenario alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcb188 View Post
    We just posted at exactly the same time again.
    Yeah, great minds think alike, and all that . . .

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mid-Cape Cod, Mass.
    Posts
    861
    See my post a couple back that came in at the same time yours did so you didn't see it. But you are right, all this stuff happens so fast that you just have to err on the side of caution.
    Don't fire unless you have to, is the best rule. If you are unsure, then don't.
    When the time comes for you to fire, you will know it.
    You know, people who are concerned about whether they would do the right thing, are usually the same people who end up actually doing the right thing.
    Just because they want to get it right.

  6. #20
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Here's the deal... and it may not be a pleasant thought either.

    As we are supposed to be the card carrying good guys, we are obligated by law, and by society to be 100% right, 100% of the time in which we pull the trigger to defend ourselves and our loved ones.

    That automatically puts us "behind the curve" versus the bad guys because they don't play by the rules or even care of the consequences of their actions.

    So just because we are the good guys, there's no guarantee that we are gonna survive the encounter in the first place. We may just as well end up dead and the bad guy gets away just because we try to follow the rules of morality and those that society has placed on us.

    Therefore in order to stack the deck in our favor, it is incumbent of us to develop sound tactics and knowledge in the rules of lethal force so that we can use that to our advantage should we ever need to use a firearm to defend ourselves.

    I am amazed at how many people who will plop down over $1,000 each on a custom handgun or two, $200 + on each holster and then feel they don't need to spend a dime on training, courses, books, videos or whatever material you need to learn how to do it right and stay out of prison or even survive the battle.

    I've been studying lethal force as a student and an instructor for close to 3 decades and still don't know it all. I treat it as almost a religion.

    I hope if the moment of truth ever comes, I've learned not only enough to survive, but also stay out of prison as well.

    But bottom line... there are no guarantee's
    Last edited by Bark'n; May 2nd, 2008 at 02:52 AM.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #21
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Here's one of my earlier posts from the reference section that may be helpful... or not.

    Can You Be Too Prepared
    Good words, there. Lot to chew on.

    So, in the OP scenario, what do YOU do? Point gun and shout commands? Pepper spray the person barreling out of the house at you? You're right, we don't know all the facts just yet . . . so what do we do?

  8. #22
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Well, what I would do would probably be a lot different than a lot of other people would do based on my capabilities.

    But, since the person was a stranger, not known to me... running out of MY house, (without a weapon in hand) and doing a pretty good impression of someone trying to escape...

    And since they were still on my property, and having just received a text message from my daughter (although that text message in and of itself could have been just a rebellious adolescent prank), I would order them to stop and possibly physically tackle and or restrain them until I figured out what was going on.

    I am also trained and am a former instructor in law enforcement unarmed defense and control tactics and various other control and defense disciplines.

    If the person leaving was an honest to goodness good guy and legitimate friend of my daughters, they wouldn't require being wrestled to the ground and would obey my command to stop and tell me what was going on. (besides, I would have known them on sight already if they were a true friend of one of my kids)

    If they required me to physically restrain them, I would only do so until I was sure they hadn't just slaughtered my family inside.

    Remember, in the original story from Fox News, I had already called 911 so they should be showing up any moment to help sort through the mess.

    Remember, this response is limited to the original situation posted... change the dynamics of the scenario in any way and I may act totally different.

    I'd have to decide as it played out based on my abilities and all the information and tools I have available in my defensive bag of tricks, so to speak.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #23
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    But, since the person was a stranger, not known to me... running out of MY house, (without a weapon in hand) and doing a pretty good impression of someone trying to escape...
    See, that's not the way I read it. I read mom rams the perp's car and perp charges out of house to engage mom. IOW, when I placed myself in the situation, I see the perp heading straight at me, running full tilt. Still see the need for understaning the situation before shooting, but gives me quite a bit less time to assess.

    Sure would make a difference if perp took one look at me and bolted around the house instead. In that case I'm not giving chase, I'm heading inside to check on the kid. Hopefully with full mental alertness that another might still be inside.

    AND (he says, thinking further), I'm going to have to give a lot of thought to training myself to spotting a weapon--or absence thereof--quickly.

  10. #24
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9mm View Post
    AND (he says, thinking further), I'm going to have to give a lot of thought to training myself to spotting a weapon--or absence thereof--quickly.
    It does take training and practice... yes. None of this comes by osmosis but you are on the right track.

    And see... I forgot about ramming the persons car on my arrival to the scene. Just goes to show you how changing one dynamic of the scenario changes your whole response.

    As looking at this from the point of being a scenario I read... I forgot the part about ramming the car.

    Had it actually happened in real life and in real time... the person running out of the house could in fact just be upset because I rammed her car. Something I would have had to factor in on my response, at the time it happened.

    So feel free to disregard everything I said in prior posts... just kidding...

    the thing is... you're starting to see things in the big picture now, and that is a good thing, no matter what you choose to do.

    Good job.

    And remember, as you are still new here, and I have no idea regarding your age or experience with guns and lethal force issues....

    What's right for someone on this forum and what's right for you may be two different things.

    However, there are basic tenants to lethal force, self defense and armed encounters that apply across the board.

    Also, don't get too wrapped up in these hypothetical scenarios posted on this forum or any other forum.

    While generally, some of them can be good learning tools... a lot of them are fraught with land mines and impossible or improbable set-ups and circumstances that don't lend themselves to good or even realistic teaching scenarios.

    Some scenarios posted here are best left alone and not even comment on.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,134

    Kobiyashi Maru

    I think we have a no win situation here.

    To review:

    Daughter home alone with burglars or home invaders.

    You arrive home to find stranger leaving house.

    You have no idea how many perps, no updated status of daughter.

    No police on scene.

    As you exit your vehicle, you must confront perp.

    Do you...???

    1. Take down perp physically, rendering you unable to then go into the house and save your daughter, who is being raped/murdered.

    2. Allow perp to escape, who then turns behind you, shooting you in the back of the head.

    3. Shoot perp, who is a beautiful angel and never did anything wrong before today, and who was leaving the crime scene because of a sudden change of heart.

    4. Take perp hostage and use as a shield to confront other perps.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,407
    Having just read the "Mall Ninja Shrine" I just realized that I am no condition to respond to anything...or continue with my daily cruising of the site before work.

    Some of what I have read here is 180* from prior "What if" threads regarding home invasions, and so on...that and some parallels to the "Mall Ninja". I pray that my mind has injected remnants from prior reading, and I have missed something critical here.

    Hopefully a nice stressful day at work fixing stupid operator judgment calls will clear my head.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  13. #27
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9mm View Post
    Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough on my ethical dilemma.

    Dilemma isn't/wasn't whether or not to shoot. Let's say I had good reason to shoot, and did so, destroying my target.

    The perp's mom is saying, essentially, that she's a sweet girl, just a bit mislead. Not a hardcore criminal type. In the heat of the moment, I don't think that will matter one bit when/if I have to pull the trigger. But later on . . . I wonder if that would haunt me.
    It seems that just about every perpetrator's family claims they were a "good person".

    If you are presented with a situation where you our your family are in imminent danger of great bodily harm, and you don't act and you or your are killed or injured, will it by any comfort to your loved ones that the person who attacked you was a "good person, just a little misguided"?

    Taking a life is not something to ever take lightly. The chances are that even if you are forced to do so in clear self-defense, it will have long-lasting effects on you and those around you.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  14. #28
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9mm View Post
    Good words, there. Lot to chew on.

    So, in the OP scenario, what do YOU do? Point gun and shout commands? Pepper spray the person barreling out of the house at you? You're right, we don't know all the facts just yet . . . so what do we do?
    The problem with scenarios on the forum is that they are static, but the real world is dynamic. What the person leaving the house does when challenged is going to make all the difference in your actions.

    To further complicate the issue presented in the opening scenario, recall also that 911 has been called. They are responding to what they have been told is an active home invasion. When they arrive, if you're out in the yard with a visible firearm, they are going to view you as a suspect and you can bet you will be proned out at gunpoint.

    The opening scenario is a tough one. If, God forbid, one were in that situation one would have to play it as it unfolds. Realistically, the chances of a good outcome are pretty poor, if the intruders are armed and intent on causing harm.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  15. #29
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    Quote Originally Posted by dcb188 View Post
    A few are saying basically that scenarios should not even be posted unless they are real life. But rev9mm's original post asking for thoughts was a scenario. How do we and why should we avoid scenarios, then?
    Disagreeing with a scenario does not make it an invalid scenario, or does it :)
    Someone give you a scenario, then you give a couple back to show differences and it should be left alone? Uh oh.
    I think scenarios are very useful, but one has to recognize that written scenarios are primarily static, whereas defensive encounters are dynamic things.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mid-Cape Cod, Mass.
    Posts
    861
    I know you do, Matt. I was talking about other comments that were not laid out fully, just alluded to..Rev9mm puts forth a scenario, asks for thoughts. I come back with some other scenarios or we vary his a little bit to see what all of us would or should do.
    Here's the thing----someone asks for advice. They are not addressing anyone in particular so you try to give them advice thru scenarios, examples, real life situations, real things, and someone comes along and just says, oh, pay no attention to those examples, but they do not say how they are incorrect or why the person who asked for them should take them with a grain of salt.
    So it is left like that, and that is fine because this is a free speech country.
    But when someone jumps in to say oh don't listen to that advice, they really should pick apart the scenarios and teach us where we strayed from the true path :)
    Thankfully I have only seen it happen once so far on the forums.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. "Gunmen kill teen during robbery"
    By socuban in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: June 12th, 2008, 09:14 PM
  2. "Teen dead, officer wounded in shootout"
    By socuban in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: May 29th, 2008, 01:31 PM
  3. Update to "Teen Kills Home Intruder with .410" Story
    By CT-Mike in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 18th, 2008, 06:20 PM
  4. "Teen Shot 6 Times, Robbed Of Gold Teeth"
    By goawayfarm in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: December 26th, 2006, 06:36 PM
  5. "Parole officer gives teen vest": Akron Beacon-Journal
    By Sky Pilot in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: July 23rd, 2006, 05:26 PM

Search tags for this page

ethical dilemma scenarios about teenagers

Click on a term to search for related topics.