Could have drawn, but didn't - Page 2

Could have drawn, but didn't

This is a discussion on Could have drawn, but didn't within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Is your car marked with identification indicating what you do. Some paper delivery people around here have a small light on the car top that ...

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  1. #16
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    Array SleepingZ's Avatar
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    Is your car marked with identification indicating what you do. Some paper delivery people around here have a small light on the car top that flashes or is a strobe type. It might help someone know what you are doing.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.


  2. #17
    Member Array Jason Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasomers View Post
    The simple act of driving on a driveway does not legally allow someone to use deadly force, which is what this man did, by definition.

    To point a deadly weapon, for any reason, constitutes the use of deadly force. At no point did I even leave this guys driveway or even leave my vehicle.

    While I agree that, if I had actually entered his residence, he would have been justified in bringing his weapon to bear, I highly doubt that this circumstance would justify him in any way.

    There seems to be much more to this than someone protecting his property.



    I did not enter the land with the intent to commit a crime, I was in the process of leaving, and I had a justifiable reason for making the mistake and was in the process of completing verifiable employment. At no point did I even exit my vehicle. The fact is that the man came at me using deadly force, which could have brought a much different response.
    Never bring a pistol to a rifle fight.

    Your tactical situation was so poor, if you would have drawn he almost certainly would have smoked you, and real fast too. You where seated in a vehicle and had a holstered pistol vs. his rifle in hand. When the cops came to remove your body he would have made statements to the effect that he was investigating a trespasser, prudently armed, when the trespasser drew a pistol and attempted to kill him. The only way I see you coming out of that one alive is if his rifle was not even loaded. If you did win I would hate to be the one to represent you in court.-Jay

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    {but right at this time I realized that this guy was not an immediate danger, as the gun was now being held in one hand by the stock as he began screaming at me to leave, not to mention that the bolt was back.}

    After trespassing, and with those conditions I would argue you did not have a just cause to use deadly force, and therefore could not have drawn without potentially being charged if it went far enough.

    However, I also am pleased it came out OK. It was an honest mistake anyone could have made.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasomers View Post
    The simple act of driving on a driveway does not legally allow someone to use deadly force, which is what this man did, by definition.

    To point a deadly weapon, for any reason, constitutes the use of deadly force. At no point did I even leave this guys driveway or even leave my vehicle.

    While I agree that, if I had actually entered his residence, he would have been justified in bringing his weapon to bear, I highly doubt that this circumstance would justify him in any way.

    There seems to be much more to this than someone protecting his property.



    I did not enter the land with the intent to commit a crime, I was in the process of leaving, and I had a justifiable reason for making the mistake and was in the process of completing verifiable employment. At no point did I even exit my vehicle. The fact is that the man came at me using deadly force, which could have brought a much different response.
    Here in MI, our castle doctrine is clear that we have no duty to retreat IF we are somewhere we have the legal right to be. If you tresspassed on private property in MI, you have NO right to stand your ground and meet force with force. You could, however, still defend yourself once you've exhausted all means of retreat. The resident was over the top himself, and in no way would be justified in shooting a simple tresspasser, but standing your ground and shooting back would still be a problem. Not claiming that this is true in TX, just giving food for thought, as I'm sure that some other castle doctrines have similar wording. My point is: 1) Know YOUR laws and 2) restraint is good.

    Good job.
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  5. #20
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I'd hate to be on the jury for this one.

    Homeowner investigating a traspasser on his property versus a Paperboy delivering papers. I commend you for not drawing and making a bad situation worse. +1

    Anytime you can keep from drawing your gun, let alone having to shoot, is a win in my book.

    Biker

  6. #21
    Member Array ak_balla's Avatar
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    I think you handled the situation well. btw, where in Alaska do you live?

  7. #22
    Member Array sasomers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_balla View Post
    I think you handled the situation well. btw, where in Alaska do you live?
    I live in the valley right now, but I'll be moving to Los Anchorage in Mid-August.

  8. #23
    Member Array ak_balla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasomers View Post
    I live in the valley right now, but I'll be moving to Los Anchorage in Mid-August.
    Haha, you sound just like my dad. Ever go shooting out at birchwood?

  9. #24
    Member Array sasomers's Avatar
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    nope, I have a 300 yard range in my back yard. I do frequent the indoor range in Palmer though.

  10. #25
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    Good job sasomers... you were ready but thank God you you didn't need to protect yourself.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  11. #26
    Member Array mrhutch's Avatar
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    i would say that HE was more in the right to shoot YOU, especially if you had pulled your gun on him. he was defending his property.

  12. #27
    Member Array russell_pta's Avatar
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    my area of oklahoma has gotten pretty bad like this. in the last couple of years, i have been run off of land that i was hunting on at gun point 3 times.

    both times i had permission to be there from the land owner, but it was always their son/brother/friend trying to keep people off of the land.

    it always makes me angry, but every time i have just complied and there was no further trouble.

    but someone running up to me with a gun drawn when i have a shotgun/rifle seems dumb on their part, and rediculous to say the least.

    trespassing on land, not home or backyard should not warrant gun point imo.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I am glad things turned out well for you and that you didn't present your gun.

    I do have some concerns as to how you would have been justified in presenting your weapon, thereby standing your ground on another persons property? I don't know what the laws are in Alaska, but here in Texas that isn't even close to legal. You may want to check into your state law and clarify whether or not it is in fact legal for you to pull your gun on a homeowner/property owner who is telling you to leave his property after you have passed a no trespassing sign.

    I will tell you this, in Texas, had you presented your weapon the land owner would be fully justified in shooting you for pulling a gun on him on his own property. And as others have stated not a good idea to go against a rifle with a pistol. I am serious about checking into the laws in your state, because I don't believe you assessed the legality of what you thought of doing correctly.

    Oh, and get power steering if you can't turn your Explorer with one hand.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  14. #29
    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasomers View Post
    I'm pretty sure he had some operation going on and really wanted to be left alone, which I doubt is a reality since I reported it to the State Troopers.
    So the guy was over the top with his response (at least in Alaska) to a trespass. What came of him and his visit with the State Troopers?

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    You did the right thing, that is one of the toughest decisions a CHL person has to make - to draw or not to draw your weapon. What is really bad is it is a split second decision that would take a very long time for lawyers and judges to debate in a court of law.

    The old saying among police officers goes like this, first you go home, then your partner goes home, and then the rest of the shift goes home. It is always a good shift when you come home alive for a police officer, firefighter, glorified paper boy or ordinary citizen with a CHL.
    Last edited by crzy4guns; June 3rd, 2008 at 06:25 PM. Reason: grammer
    God bless our troops!

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