May 7th, 2008 12:45 AM
My bank was robbed - merged, updated & crime solved
Today I was planning on going to the bank to transfer some funds from one account to another. I considered going through the drive-through, but decided I would probably go inside since these were new accounts and I wasn't sure how smoothly it would go at the drive-through. Thanks to what I've read on this forum, I now plan to go through the drive-through whenever possible, but I thought this time I might need a human right in front of me to make sure I didn't get the accounts mixed up.
As I was considering my options for the trip to the bank after work, for a moment I considered disarming to go inside the bank because... well, mainly because I forgot it wasn't illegal for me to carry in the bank , but also because nothing bad has ever happened there (we've lived in this neighborhood 12 years--bank is two blocks away), it's in a wide-open area, no places to hide nearby, blah blah blah . But the thought occurred to me that a bank is precisely where I need to carry since banks seem to attract armed thieves on occassion. So I confirmed my decision to carry inside, though mentally telling myself it probably wasn't needed and it was paranoia/overkill on my part.
Not two minutes after I had this conversation with myself, I heard on the radio my bank had been robbed.
Shame on me for even considering not carrying. Good on me for studying this forum and realizing "anytime, anyplace", and "always carry."
Note: I wasn't near the bank at the time. Come to find out it had been robbed yesterday but I hadn't heard about it until today. But here's the rest of the story: I had planneded to go to this bank yesterday after work, but I had some errands come along that needed doing after work, so I put the trip to the bank off for a day.
In addition to this close call, when I saw the mug shot of the guy robbing the teller, the picture showed the exact place where my wife and I had been 3 weeks ago opening an account. The EXACT floor space where we had stood.
It was a lone robber who handed the teller a note. I don't believe a weapon was shown. I've gone over in my mind what I might have done given that scenario, or a scenario if a gun had been shown. Assuming I would have been aware of a robbery going on (unlikely in this instance), I wouldn't want to splatter an unarmed(?) man... yet I've observed enough to know not to ever trust in the mercy of a bad guy because compliance can still result in being killed, depending on the mood of the bad guy. In this situation, I probably would not have been aware of the robbery even if I had been standing at another teller, or perhaps even behind the robber. And I sure wouldn't want to draw on someone who just happened to be withdrawing large sums of his own money. I'd have to be certain it was a robbery before I would even consider drawing.
Lone robber in bank, back to me and my wife, and I see a gun... Leaving the bank quickly might be an option, but to do so at this bank would require us turning our backs on the robber and walking 30 feet or so, or backing out, which might draw attention. If I can get my wife out safely by leaving quickly, that's the best option. But if at that moment I don't feel it's safe to turn our backs to him, my instincts would be to draw while moving away from my wife, prepare to fire if necessary, and deal with the legal system once the shooting stops. I hope that never happens, but I've read too many times of people not resisting and getting shot anyway.
I don't think I would shoot the guy in the back... right or wrong, my initial reaction probably would be to move away from my wife and to a point where the teller wasn't directly behind the robber, and yell something like "freeze or I'll shoot!" Aiming at him, of course, and ready to fire if he jerked around or did anything other than freeze. I realize this would be giving away some of my advantage, so maybe I need to rethink this.
Though it would likely cost me thousands in legal fees, and perhaps my freedom if the jury is not sympathetic to my actions, I am not inclined to trust my wife's life and my life to the mercy of an armed gunman by just HOPING he leaves quietly without hurting anyone.
I think that's the bottom line. I'm no Rambo, and I don't want to shoot anyone, but I refuse to trust in the mercy of an armed criminal. The Wichita Horror comes to mind, plus several recent bank robberies where innocent people were shot even though they were complying.
Someone critique me, please. If there are better ways to handle this, I need to know. Apparently it's possible I may be tested on this scenario at some point.
May 7th, 2008 12:54 AM
Best to just follow his instructions even if you see a gun..........lay on the floor just like all the others and do nothing unless he actually starts shooting people, or robbing individuals and your turn is coming up........
It is not your responsibility to stop the robbery of the banks money. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and (morally) those around you if he starts shooting. Do NOT try to move yourself and wife around. It will bring attention to you. Best to keep her close to you anyway. Have a plan already in place that if she sees you draw your gun that she drops to the floor immediately.
Otherwise, just be a good witness.......
Others may say that if you see the gun, then it is time to draw and fire if you have a clean shot. I used to agree with this since there is no guarantee that if he does start shooting (and you wait for that) that you are not the first one he shoots!
NEVER EVER give away your advantage by screaming "freeze or I'll shoot!" or any other warning. Once you have comitted yourself to take the action, carry through with it as quickly (and cleanly) as possible.
It's your call and you are the one that has to live (or die) with it.
May 7th, 2008 01:14 AM
I am all for being a good witness,unless he escalates the situation.As long as he gets the money and leaves I let him,If he runs out sees cops and tries to reenter it will become a hostage situation and I don't wanta be a hostage if i can help it.A lot depends on number of bad guys types of weapons and whether they escalate the robbery.The lone bank robber that shot the pregnant teller had i been there and his attention was diverted for the 1 second it would take me to draw and put 2 rounds in his heart he woulda been a good shoot
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
May 7th, 2008 01:22 AM
Lone robber with a note? Those are usually calm affairs (for everyone but the teller) where the robber grabs his little sack of cash and runs.
I agree with AEA. It's not your money, so why get involved?
I made the decision long time ago that "lay down on the floor" is where I draw the line. I'm not going to lay there counting carpet threads while the BG shoots me in the back of the head.
If the robber (bank, Quickie-Mart, etc.) shows intent to just get his money and run, I'm blending into the woodwork. If he starts ordering customers around, I'm looking for cover and getting ready to defend myself.
He's going to have to shoot me face to face or die trying.
May 7th, 2008 07:15 AM
Some clarification: I don't care a bit about the money. I would not get involved in order to keep the bank from getting robbed.
It's all about my wife and I leaving the bank alive. I would consider going on the offensive so we might live another day.
And my question was what would be considered a good option of the robber showed a gun, not just a note.
May 7th, 2008 07:32 AM
If he showed a gun, or if he just had a note and I knew he was robbing the place, I would draw!!
Originally Posted by grady
If he had a gun pointed at anyone I would Shoot !!
With no weapon he is ordered to the ground and will wait for the PD.
That's just me, This felon could leave the bank and get in a high speed chase with the chance of killing someone or an officer.
If I can stop him, I will... Just my thoughts...
GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
May 7th, 2008 07:45 AM
Pop smoke, draw and start laying down suppressive fire while holding my briefcase with ceramic plates up in from of me, because I know they will stop a .338 Laupa bullet. (sorry couldn't resist the GK thing)
The pros have a plant in the audience. The plant's job is to take out any heros that may be present.
I know some pretty pro-active LEOs and their advice is this; If the BG(s) aren't searching anyone, and they aren't shooting anyone, then everything stays put. As soon as either of the previous cases become true then it is a gunfight.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
May 7th, 2008 08:31 AM
Good one Scott...
Originally Posted by Scott
Ahhh, what an awful dream. Ones and zeros everywhere... and I thought I saw a two.
May 7th, 2008 08:46 AM
I agree, wholeheartedly. My line in the sand, so to speak, would be when a BG forced everybody to lay down.
Originally Posted by 1911packer
If I comply, my vision is limited, my movements are limited, I am without cover, any movement might draw a shot, and I am basically helpless.
If some BG wants to give a teller a note and hope for money that's his and the teller's business. I'll probably never even know it happened.
If he has a weapon, I will be moving to cover and away from his line of sight. To his left if I have the option. If opportunity presents itself, I MAY draw and fire. Depends on his demeanor, where his finger is, type of weapon, and too many other variables to list.
But if he orders people to the ground, I WILL crouch, draw and fire.
May 7th, 2008 09:00 AM
I never go into a bank. I have a credit union office that is inside a secured location at a secure site. I can do most things on a computer anyway. I guess that makes me blessed, it places the odds in my favor.
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
May 7th, 2008 09:11 AM
I would never protect the banks money but, I guess we all have a different personal line that cannot be crossed.
"lay on the floor just like all the others and do nothing unless he actually starts shooting people,"
Sorry but, I am not laying down or kneeling and I am not being led into any back room by an armed unknown perp.
I guess that will be when the real loud action starts if I am in the bank.
We all gotta go sometime & I'll bet my life on myself rather than on the whim of some of some adrenalin pumped crack induced felon.
Naturally there are variables and every scenario and environmental lay-out will be unique unto itself AKA lone robber or multiple BGs & availability of cover so I'll need to trust my gut to know exactly when I personally will explode from passive to extremely aggressive.
Cannot see me placing myself into a disadvantageous submissive position with some armed nut-job/s playing God For A Day.
Somebody will be singing "so long it's been good to know you" and I don't sing very well but, I sure can shoot.
I'm not meaning to sound macho but, I'm personally not letting some loser show me the EXIT door with my firearm still housed in leather.
Just my personal opinion and I'm not making suggestions as to how anybody else should act or react.
Hopefully you'll be honest with yourselves as to where exactly on the scale your individual "skill level arrow" is pointing.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
May 7th, 2008 09:13 AM
Bingo!!!! I have not stepped in a bank in 3 years, and then it was only to close on our new house. The internet is a wonderful thing.....
Originally Posted by Reborn
May 7th, 2008 09:19 AM
I agree with QK, I'm Not "Going Gentle into that Goodnight"
Since most bank robberies are quiet affairs you probably want know about it till the robber leaves.
If it is a take over type robbery, then all bets are off. I'll play it by ear, but the goal is that my family lives and I get home to them. I will take what ever action that I deem most likely to accomplish my goal.
I will not trust my life to the mercy of a stranger.
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
May 7th, 2008 09:31 AM
In my own view, I would stay out of it UNLESS he herds you and other folks back into the back offices etc and orders everyone to lie down. He needs to be popped at that point because he has made what I call "potential execution arrangements" and once he begins, if he begins, your chances just went out the window.
So I would stay out of it completely, comply etc but when they begin that herding and lying down etc if you have a clear shot he must be administered a dose of lead asap. Just because you don't know what he will do and he is making preparation for something more final than just taking the money and running.
And these days they frequently just like to hurt people for no reason.
Grady, I saw a video, actually a series of photos, of an off duty officer in a line at a bank that was being robbed. He and the robber exchanged several shots each, with neither of them hitting the other, at very close range. Their bodies were in various contorted positons as they ducked, went to the floor, knelt, got up etc etc It was weird but it showed that even at close range people can miss the targets when things are wild like that. The off duty cop could easily have gotten killed. So could the robber, but that is obviously another story and not a very sad one.
But when they say everyone in back and lie down, that is the time, as I said, to administer the lead dosage.
Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".
May 7th, 2008 10:12 AM
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