Drew & Fired - Please Help? - Page 3

Drew & Fired - Please Help?

This is a discussion on Drew & Fired - Please Help? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At least it is a hypothetical situation only....

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Thread: Drew & Fired - Please Help?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    At least it is a hypothetical situation only.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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  2. #32
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Watch this video and see what could have happened and he was real lucky.
    Video Library - Channel 2 News Utah
    "I always carry my gun in me..."

  3. #33
    Member Array Craiger's Avatar
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    okay now i have a headache
    In God we trust, Everyone else we monitor...

  4. #34
    Member Array bgriffin70's Avatar
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    It sure gets me to thinking since I travel so much, and often times yes, with my family. Hotel security, at even the finest of places, certainly isn't the best.

  5. #35
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    JMO. The call would have been demanding either the guset in the next room were told to leave, or provide me with another room. People continuing to try my room door. I'm out of there and demanding a refund on my room accomodations. So I would not have had to worry about someone forcing their way into my room. You broke several prime rules as I see it.
    1. You opened the door to someone you did not know.
    2. You put yourself between individuals who forced their way in and the open door, they might have been decoys to distract you.
    3. You are facing 2 armed assailants (they made the claim of being armed also) and allowed them to reach into their pockets.
    4. You fired warning shot.
    If you draw your weapon, and the assailant does not follow your directions and makes aggressive moves. You defend yourself. Shot fired center mass is justified and reasonable response to their actions.

  6. #36
    Member Array bgriffin70's Avatar
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    Archer... so you're saying "better tried by 12 than carried by six?" :-)

    Okay... another thing to add to this complicated scenario as well... some say on here, pack up and get out of dodge. That's fine - but what if you've been staying at this place for almost 3 weeks now, computers, company electronics and attractive equipment (for those who would like an easy theft) - you have probably an hour's worth of packing to do, if even to switch rooms, it's AM in the morning, dark parking lot, not to mention all of the people outside, in this next room, etc. etc. - would you be safer IN your room or loading up two luggage cart's worth of stuff and having your family outside?

    You're absolutely right..... if EVER in doubt, CALL 911 !!!!!
    I certainly acknowlege that! Don't disagree with anyone on here 'bout that one.

    And one more thing to consider, and keep in mind... all of these things are running through one's mind as this scenario unfolds in seconds. Easier to be a Monday-Morning QB, but anyway... family is traveling with you. So you shoot, you kill or wound, YOU ARE GOING TO JAIL !!! Correct? You sit in jail while LE investigates, you await trial to explain self-defense... you're from the Midwest and you're staying out on the West Coast. What does your family do then? Where do they go? Just things to consider.

    Unlike some, I personally wouldn't be in a situation to post thousands on bond, hire a self-defense attorney, all that jazz over something that I was hoping to just get people to get the heck away from our door.

    Any way you look at it, though, I do appreciate all the comments. It's an excellent learning tool, and good advice from good people !!!

  7. #37
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    Yes, if someone breaks into my room, makes aggressive moves and state they have a weapon themselves. That is definite justification for self defense. Remember you have witness' to back your story. Are you willing to let them draw, possible getting shot yourself, or even worse a family member being shot? Not an option I am prepared to take.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    bg,

    1) Never unpack to the degree that it takes you more than 15 minutes to bug out. I travel cross country as well, and have found this both possible and convenient. I suspect the ladies in the house will be amenable to the suggestion now, as well.

    2) Within limited context, a motel room is your domecile. It would be entirely appropriate to ask the manager to leave and to escort the others away from your door. You, in turn, may holster your sidearm, and await officers who are a bit more calm. Walking through a milling, testy crowd makes them antsy when they don't know who has the gun.

    3) I jam the door with a chair or table (or even the bed I'm sleeping in) when I 'm in a motel. Probably doesn't sound too paranoid now, does it?

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    bgriffin70,
    I'm not going to waste a bunch of time with a list of the things I think you might have done wrong because I hope that if this is more than a hypothetical situation, you should have the mods delete this thread. I would suggest that you read this thread (very long, but an eyeopener) found elsewhere on this forum. Pay close attention to the last paragraph of post #2 because in your "hypothetical" situation, you not only have to concern yourself with the police but with civil action. It is entirely possible that your warning shots could have caused severe and permanent trauma to the poor individuals who were just confused about which room they were supposed to be at and who you fired upon with no warning and no justifiable cause (that IS the way they would play it out in court). In the post I suggested you read, no one deserved to be shot more than the BG in that scenario but it didn't prevent him from suing for his injuries. I STRONGLY suggest you consider having this post pulled.

    Hoss
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Why would the mods delete the thread? No need to. In the hypothetical the warning shots were fired into a grassy area, and bullets were recovered there by police, thereby proving they hit no one. Sure the shots could have caused severe and permanent trauma to the individuals who were not in the grassy area. The scenario made it very clear that the individuals at his door were not mistaken re the room and were saying they had firearms and he (shooter) was basically a dead man. They reached into their pockets saying they had guns. They were little savages. So they are not innocent little motel lambs. And it would not be played out in court like that.
    The little lambs would be prosecuted for assault and other charges.
    Keep in mind that police are not shy about arresting perpetrators on the scene. They told him he was basically all set. So not arresting him and the comments they made? Not a problem. He will be all set, as he should be. Police would have locked him up faster n you could say my name is Hoss.
    Sure there are things he could have done differently but how did the hypothetical scenario end up?
    Pulling it means we are afraid, to talk, to run things by each other.
    This is the fear that has made our world what it is today.
    And court? These little savages will not go to court. They are too stoned to even go to their own houses, let alone court. They would probably be picked up on warrants. The scenario says they were high. So, what kind of witnesses would they make? I myself would love nothing more than to cross-examine them. With the kind of stuff they pulled? Go to court? I highly doubt it. They are the ones who INITIATED THE SCENARIO. We have got to start knowing right from wrong in this country, people. But as our drill instructors told us at Marine Corps boot camp at Parris Island, there is always that 10% :)
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    I've done too much traveling in my life (company biz) and have to many nights in good and some bad hotels. I think I would have done a few things differently. First, the front desk gets ONE chance to correct a situation as you described. After that, 911 gets the call. Second, I would NOT have opened the door at all. You did right in advising the other party they had the wrong room. After that, if they break in, it's AMF (and I'm not talking about the bowling people!). Third, they get NO warning shots. If the situation calls for deadly force to stop the threat, warning shots fall short of that objective and does nothing but get you into trouble and buy the BG's time to enact their scenario.
    Tim
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  12. #42
    Member Array LMarshall73's Avatar
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    I'll jump in on this one since I have encoutered similar situations. I spent just shy of 40 weeks in extended stay type hotels in 2007 alone. I wish I could count on just one hand the number of times I have had people try to open my door. Anytime I am in the room, even if only for a few minutes, the safety latch is on. Usually (especially if it occurs at night) I am at the door in a couple of seconds with my Glock 22 in hand. I raise it to low ready while checking the peep-hole, and yell to them through the door that they have the wrong room. So far, that has been sufficient. I have often played through the scenario in case, God forbid, one day it doesn't work. I can say this with conviction, however, that every scenario I've played out in no way, shape, or form, include firing a warning shot. Dialing 911 and/or calling down to the front desk are dependant on the actions of those on the other side of the door and how well the door holds. If the door is breached, it is on like Donkey Kong.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcb188 View Post
    Why would the mods delete the thread? No need to. In the hypothetical the warning shots were fired into a grassy area, and bullets were recovered there by police, thereby proving they hit no one. Sure the shots could have caused severe and permanent trauma to the individuals who were not in the grassy area. The scenario made it very clear that the individuals at his door were not mistaken re the room and were saying they had firearms and he (shooter) was basically a dead man. They reached into their pockets saying they had guns. They were little savages. So they are not innocent little motel lambs. And it would not be played out in court like that.
    The little lambs would be prosecuted for assault and other charges.
    Keep in mind that police are not shy about arresting perpetrators on the scene. They told him he was basically all set. So not arresting him and the comments they made? Not a problem. He will be all set, as he should be. Police would have locked him up faster n you could say my name is Hoss.
    Sure there are things he could have done differently but how did the hypothetical scenario end up?
    Pulling it means we are afraid, to talk, to run things by each other.
    This is the fear that has made our world what it is today.
    And court? These little savages will not go to court. They are too stoned to even go to their own houses, let alone court. They would probably be picked up on warrants. The scenario says they were high. So, what kind of witnesses would they make? I myself would love nothing more than to cross-examine them. With the kind of stuff they pulled? Go to court? I highly doubt it. They are the ones who INITIATED THE SCENARIO. We have got to start knowing right from wrong in this country, people. But as our drill instructors told us at Marine Corps boot camp at Parris Island, there is always that 10% :)
    If the story is truly a hypothetical, I wish the OP would have just posed it as such and not laced the story with innuendo and "present tense" word usage that leads to the impression that this is NOT a true hypothetical but is only veiled in that term for legal purposes. If I thought this were a true hypothetical, I'd give a true response as to what I felt was wrong with the actions in his scenario.

    And as far as ending up in court, what you and I may know is wrong with the world and what's right and wrong won't prevent you from ending up in court at which time anything written is going to make it hard to avoid sticking one's foot in the fire. If you haven't done so, read the thread I referenced in my previous post. If that doesn't prove that even when we are right we can still face consequences, I don't know what will. The person in that story who ended up shooting the BG was fortunate that he was an employee on company time and his employer's insurance paid out the claim. If he were just an individual acting on his own, while a civil court may very well rule in his favor, it doesn't eliminate the fact that he would still be out a sizable sum of money presenting his defense. I won't debate the things the OP did right or wrong in his "hypothetical" but because of the possibility of civil litigation, I will reiterate my thought that he should have this thread deleted. If this story is just a "daydream", then please just say so and I'll get off of my soapbox. But if not, I think the OP should be concerned about possible consequences.

    Hoss
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  14. #44
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    If that is all you're saying, then I know what you mean exactly. But as long as it is a hypothetical, it seems okay to keep it. Actually, he should go back and get ride of anything that makes it seems like it is not a hypothetical because you're right, it seems hypothetical but some language makes one wonder. I think you are right on target about possible consequences and previous posts including mine told him to either make it all hypothetical so it is clearly so or delete it.
    So hopefully he can make it so it is more clearly hypothetical if that what it truly is.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  15. #45
    Member Array socuban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMarshall73 View Post
    If the door is breached, it is on like Donkey Kong.
    Knock knock. Who's there? BANG!


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