Drew & Fired - Please Help?

This is a discussion on Drew & Fired - Please Help? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This might be a fun scenario to get some answers from, especially since I travel quite frequently on business. For those who travel a lot, ...

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Thread: Drew & Fired - Please Help?

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    Member Array bgriffin70's Avatar
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    Question Drew & Fired - Please Help?

    This might be a fun scenario to get some answers from, especially since I travel quite frequently on business. For those who travel a lot, or want to chime in, I'll create this drama as if it were "made for TV." Here goes...

    On a cold, quiet Saturday night, my wife, two kids, and myself, let's say, are staying at an "extended-stay" type hotel.

    Okay, back to this Saturday night scenario. Keep in mind - let's say your family is with you on this one! Let's say this situation happens to you, so here's family in room and at approximately 12 midnight, hear a lot of noise coming from the room next door, room. The noise is obviously from a large group of people, and could hear fighting, cursing, noises of sexual nature, etc. and finally called the front desk. Front desk says "we'll check on it." Never heard back the first time called. You wind up calling front desk three times with no real results.

    Shortly after 2am, people begin showing up to this room and were obviously mistaking room for the one next door, by physically trying to open the door. No knocks, just people physically turning the handle and hard pushes on the door. Your wife and daughter awakened and are in tears. If this would occur, I would shout, "wrong room," and then noises would stop. But - this would continue off and on for about once every half to every hour.

    Finally, at about 5am, two men come to door and physically pushing it in and yelling let us in. I went to door, with weapon in hand, and yelled for them to leave, that they had the wrong room. They advised me they would bust the door down if I did not open it, so I cracked the door with gun in hand and they did acknowledge they had the wrong room. These guys even finally leave, but things are still escalating. One more call to the front desk resulted in "no answer." Probably should be calling 911 over and over and over right now, but let's say what if the phones are out, or you just make a bad decision not to, thinking that it will stop and you can finally just get some sleep. (sigh)

    Let's say that Things got quiet again, then at approximately 6am, a young man and woman come to door and once again, physically began trying to open it. Yelling gang-related vulgarities, and threatening to bust the door down. In this exercise, I donned my shirt and shorts, chambered the weapon, and cracked the door to tell them to go away. This time - THEY DID NOT GO AWAY AND THE WOMAN BEGAN PUSHING ON THE DOOR SO HARD that the safey lock latch broke and the door swung open. SHE enters the room walking towards daughter, daughter screaming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    DRAW DOWN OCCURRED. I'm dreaming in my head that at this time, I drew my Glock 21, laser on, and told them to step back OUTSIDE of our room. As they saw the weapon, both the man and woman stepped back approximately ten feet then began making verbal threats that I was a "dead man." They stood on the balcony outside of our room as I stood in the doorway with weapon drawn and wife on the phone to 911 and the hotel front desk. PD was in route.

    The woman then states that I have no right to have a gun and I remain drawn on both of them, keeping a watchful eye to my back and the door of the next door room. Several others from the room next door come outside and take off running, while the two held in sight of my gun began saying they too had a gun and were going to take care of me right then and there. Even while my gun was pointed at them, both the man and woman were reaching into their pockets and finally stated that they had guns to and this was it. The woman raised both hands and started yelling and approaching me.

    Now you're in shock, shaking, but thought, God - please give me strength and thought one last moment to fire two warning shots into a grassy field ( no one is around )behind the hotel. The warning shots startle them, at least enough to make them step back one more time. Finally, the hotel manager, of all people, comes running up the stairs, seemingly out of no where, and stepped in between myself and the man and woman. The uninvited woman tried to physically push the hotel manager (woman) down to the ground and I asked the hotel manager to please step aside. The hotel manager refused and had no weapon - brave lady, I guess. ??? The hotel manager woman knows of these people and tells them they are not registered here and tells them to leave.

    About 30 minutes after this event occurred, with gun still in my hand, PD arrived with about 20 officers, they drew on me as well as the others, ordered me to drop my gun, threw me to the ground, cuffed me, read me my rights, and then started getting statements. After I clarified I was the one who had called 911 and they were trying to make sense out of everything, they did uncuff me. This is made-for-TV scenario I'm trying to make up, but something that could very well happen during travels nowadays!

    Obviously if this were real, my weapon would be confiscated by the PD and is still in their possession pending the decision of the prosecutor? What in the world do they do with the weapon?

    The man and woman wound up having to be "tased" in order to be subdued and both were arrested and carted off to the local iron bar and grill. Obviously very high on something !!!!!


    OKAY - now the floor is open. Comments? What would YOU have done? What did I do wrong in this scenario? Did I do anything right? Why did the PD confiscate my weapon - because it was discharged? That's the explanation I got from some individuals. So in this pretend incident, am I or I am awaiting a phone call to find out when I can retrieve the weapon, IF I can. I am a little concerned.

    I emphasize, I do NOT have my CCW license as of yet. The wheels are in motion, but Oklahoma takes about 3 months.
    Already over a month has passed, so I'm thinking out these scenarios in what would one do? What ifs, ya' know ???

    I have copies of the classroom and hands on certificates of training and my application which was submitted to the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation about a month ago. I provided copies of these papers to the PD officers on the scene. Let's say I was NOT concealing at the time, but simply... had the weapon in my posession while inside the hotel room.

    Quite a difficult theory - Thoughts, PLEASE ????????????????
    Last edited by bgriffin70; May 12th, 2008 at 06:44 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Re: this hypothetical scenario you give us. This is just a very quick, off the cuff, set of remarks, knee-jerk reactions, if you will.
    Always better to wait til you see that someone has a weapon (or be positive that they do).
    Firing two warning shots probably not a good idea.
    But this is easy for us to say when not being directly threatened by people who are not leaving but are reaching into pockets while telling you they have a gun and it is all over for you. So it is a tough one but will let the LEOS call this one.
    Did police tell you that you might be charged, down the line? What did they say?
    Great that they uncuffed you as a lot of states would not have.
    Not at all unusual, the part about them taking your gun meanwhile, while investigation is being conducted. Even when LEOS are involved in any shooting whatsoever, their guns are taken also. That is not necessarily a good predictor of what will happen.
    Just that fact that they did not arrest you is a good sign, re whether you would be charged or not.
    Here is something else to keep in mind: Except for really blatant examples of a person having to draw and fire a weapon in dire extremes, usually, even IF you are in the right, most folks will say that you should not have drawn and fired. I am not saying that about this case either way. I am saying that we commonly can find ways for someone to have avoided what happened, even if it was unavoidable.
    Do you see what I am driving at? Whether you were right or wrong, it can easily be shown that you were wrong, unless it was so blatant that anyone would say yeah he had someone firing at him, so his shooting of the bad guy was correct. Anything less than really obviously being in the right on your part, will mean that many responses will say that you did everything wrong. This is not necessarily the case. You were the one standing there in the motel room.
    What would a reasonable person have done? Did you feel (reasonably) that you HAD TO DO WHAT YOU DID, to protect your life and that of your family? Or not?
    If you did not have to do what you did, then you probably should not have done it, but this is easier said after the fact than during the trauma of the situation when it is happening live.
    Maybe a good guide is to remember that during times like that, you need to ask yourself, do I NEED to be doing this? Only you can answer that.
    Last edited by dcb188; May 12th, 2008 at 04:50 PM.
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    Member Array turbo93's Avatar
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    you are in the legal system now I would get a lawyer and not make anymore statements on line or elsewhere without your lawyers pemission. Mistake one was staying there mistake 2 was staying there that night. Mistake 3 was not calling the cops sooner. Mistake 4 was opening the door. I could go on.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Don't beat yourself up too quickly on this one. First of all glad you and your family are safe. Up and till the point that the people started forcing themselves into your room I would have continued to call the desk, and police repeatedly until the situation was handled by either the management or the local LEO's.

    It may have been possible to gather your family and leave at some point that night, I wasn't there, I don't know.

    At the point they are trying forcibly to enter your room, you really have no other choice but to arm yourself and protect your family. I don't know the laws in WA, but in Texas your well within your rights to arm yourself without a CHL in a hotel room.

    If the two were approaching your and attempting to pull something from their pockets, I guess it is better to have fired a warning shot than to have killed to idiots that don't know when to back up, or off.

    I hope you will get your pistol back shortly, and you and your family will find a better place to stay. I am not one for lawsuits, but I would definately have a serious discussion with the owners of the property you were staying at. If it was franchise establisment a letter or phone call to the main corporate office would be in order. Some bad publicity in the local paper is never a good thing for the motels. My clients who own them try to keep thier names out of the paper as it isn't good for business when the police have to be called out to thier properties.

    Again, glad you and your family are safe. I hope you have a second pistol or gun while yours is being held.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    bgriffin70: I guess you were NOT placed under arrest, so that is a good sign in more ways than one.
    You are not charged with any crime, then, as we speak?
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I would highly suggest you don't post anything about these types of hypothetical scenarios until you've spoken with legal counsel. If you're still reading ...my response plan is listed below. I fully realize that I can't be in your shoes in this kind of scenario so take my response at a grain of salt.

    My response would have been a bit different given that I would not have dealt with that mess that long with my family in jeopardy. After the 1st or 2nd call to the front desk I'd have been on the phone with the LEO's. As for the door being kicked in...that's it. They would have had plenty warning by this point. I'm going hot and I'm not going to miss on purpose. This is especially the case after they told you they were going to shoot you. All bets are off on that one. Warning shots not only don't get the job done, but are dangerous as you really can't predict where they're going to go or who's going to step into them. The manager would clearly be a fool for stepping between folks in a gun fight, but that's a talk for another thread.
    Last edited by packinnova; May 12th, 2008 at 09:20 PM.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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    Member Array alfack's Avatar
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    Those places can be nasty. My mom was staying at one in Federal Way, while taking care of her mom, getting her situated in a local nursing home. One night the clerk/receptionist on duty was forced into a room and raped. I was happy when they moved my grandma to a home in Yakima, where my mom and her sister could split the care responsibilities more easily.

    I wouldn't think this is a CCW issue though, as you do not need a CCW to own a firearm and you were protecting your temporary domicile.

    I hope it turns out good for you.

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    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
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    It's easy for us to play Monday morning quarterback ,but that being said if anyone breaks down my hotel room door I will shoot. Especially after repeatedly telling them that they had the wrong room. It's not your fault that these idiots were stupid and possibly high on something.

    Good luck with whatever happens with you and the PD. I hope you are able to remain free and also take care of your family.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I think you did fine for the encounter. I'm glad you didn't have to kill/shoot anybody, but I would say that making any statements online about your frame of mind, details as you recall them, etc is a major mistake.

    We appreciate you sharing what happened and how it was resolved, but until you have this sorted out with the DA you should keep very quiet about the whole thing. Personally, I would PM Bumper or one of the other Moderators and have this thread deleted until after everything is resolved. That's just me.
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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I wish you the best of luck dealing with the outcome, but I have to agree with turbo right now---you need to get a good pro-self defense lawyer (maybe through the Second Amendment Foundation's attorney referral service, Second Amendment Foundation Online) and not talk about it until you have some good legal advice. Even if you weren't charged, you may have to deal with being sued here, so try to do everything right here.

    Good luck!
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    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    If they wanted to arrest him, they would have. Unusual to charge him later on, as they do not need detectives to tell them what happened. The responding officers would have placed him under arrest had they felt that he did anything wrong. I realize that he could be charged later, but usually it is at the scene if they are going to do it.
    So right now he is not in the system as such. Not a defendant. Not arrested. Police would have snatched him up in a hurry had he obviously been in the wrong. They make those judgement calls all the time at scenes. That is why I said it is a real good sign that you were not arrested. You are not even in the system except as being part of an incident. But you are not accused of any wrongdoing right now.
    But they are right about posting. You yourself can go back in and press the EDIT button and delete some of that stuff, at least. Maybe change it around into a hypothetical.
    Last edited by dcb188; May 12th, 2008 at 04:55 PM.
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    Member Array nkanofolives's Avatar
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    Wow, that is a scary situation. I am sorry to hear about the terror your family had to endure. That being said...I am sure that extra few hundred dollars that you saved by not going to a nicer hotel pails in comparison to the situation you are in now.

    As a side question...what happened with your hotel bill? Did the manager give you a discount/did you demand one since they were so slow to respond to your complaints. Have you called/emailed corporate/gotten a hold of a high up executive to discuss the poor conditions of your stay?

    You should tell them that you did not realize that saving a few bucks every night meant you were going to be forced to endure an extremely terrifying situation. Shame on the hotel staff for not responding quickly.

    Personally, after the second call to the front desk, I would have called the cops, people keep banging on your door? *** is up with that? I do not think the cops would have minded coming to break up that party, they probably would have landed some nice arrests.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcb188 View Post
    But they are right about posting. You yourself can go back in and press the EDIT button and delete some of that stuff, at least. Maybe change it around into a hypothetical.
    And change your username so it isn't your first initial, last name.
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    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Lawyer up and consider editing/deleting the posts you've made on here if at all possible. The moderators may be willing to help with that; I have no idea.

    Again: you need a lawyer even if you need to borrow money or pawn things to hire one. The sooner you lawyer up the better off you'll be.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    HELP

    HELP:

    Get yourself a good attorney and don't say or type anything more without his or her approval, and this includes to Investigators, Prosecuting Attorneys and Internet Forums.

    Second, next time stay in a better hotel. You waited too long to call the Police.

    Third, warning shots are a "NO-NO".

    Glad you're alive, you very easily could be taking a "dirt nap" from this situation.

    Biker

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