Are you eye balling me? - Page 2

Are you eye balling me?

This is a discussion on Are you eye balling me? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Do we think that most looks are intentional efforts to size us up as prey, then? Or are most looks just looking around instead of ...

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 84

Thread: Are you eye balling me?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mid-Cape Cod, Mass.
    Posts
    861
    Do we think that most looks are intentional efforts to size us up as prey, then? Or are most looks just looking around instead of out the window? Or is it about evenly divided?
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".


  2. #17
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Washington's Olympic Penninsula
    Posts
    283
    Yep -- Situation Management comes right after Situation Awaremess ... at any threat level.
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...ng_to_live.pdf
    Newer testament... Kill or Get Killed 1976/1987
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...Get_Killed.pdf

  3. #18
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Good post. I agree.

    And certain looks mean certain things as well.

    It's no surprise to anyone when they hear that a vast majority of our language is non-verbal. So there are different types of "eye-balling" and they should well be considered.

    1. There is the blank "thinking" stare that often innocently gets mistaken for aggression or interest.

    This has happened both to me and to several friends. You are standing in a crowd of people waiting for something (possibly to check out, or for a show to start). You start thinking about something and your eyes lock on an individual without your knowledge while your mind plays somewhere else.

    Suddenly that person's confused and annoyed face registers with you and you realize you've been staring at a complete stranger for at least two minutes. You are embarrassed because you were not intending to intrude so you look away.

    Most of the time, when this happens, the person who was doing the staring, once they "come to" they realize their mistake and avoid eye contact afterward and it's easy to see they are embarrassed about intruding.

    2. There is the interested, "I'm checking you out" stare that every boy and girl masters by AT LEAST high school. Also known as flirting.

    For some reason, grocery stores attract the weirdest individuals and I have had more attempts at getting "picked up" in grocery stores than any other place on this planet.

    It starts with the stare, then the getting closer, then, if the individual is bold enough, they will try to start a conversation by either asking if you need help or complimenting something.

    This is all fine and dandy, but if you don't want to get "picked up" (i.e. you are happily married and proudly displaying a diamond on a special hand) the last thing you want to do is encourage such behavior. You usually do this by trying to ignore the person doing the staring. Acknowledging the person and smiling or staring back would only give them the impression that you are, indeed, interested. So, the theory of returning the stare can actually prove to make it worse.

    My fix to this is usually to finish shopping as soon as possible and leave.

    3. The "aggressive" stare. For women, this can actually be similar to the "I'm checking you out" stare because, on occasion, attraction or physical interest can precipitate aggression.

    One certainly doesn't want to "lead on" the starer by making them feel they are interested, but neither does one want to make the starer think he (or she) is afraid of said starer.

    This is where you get caught between a rock and a hard place. Acknowledging the stare and returning it can, of course, stop the eye-balling, but it could also be seen as a sign of interest and encouragement leading the starer to pursue.

    What then?

    P.S.
    I'm thinking more from a woman's point of view here (obviously) but it's something to consider. How a woman responds to someone "eye-balling" her can and often SHOULD BE different than how a man responds, especially given the type of "eye-balling" going on. It would be interesting to see what others think of the difference as well.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Drakes Creek, AR
    Posts
    958
    Just because I drop the "looking back atcha" doesnt mean that I am not watching you or unaware of you..
    "Brains before Bullets"

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    2....
    This is all fine and dandy, but if you don't want to get "picked up" (i.e. you are happily married and proudly displaying a diamond on a special hand) the last thing you want to do is encourage such behavior. You usually do this by trying to ignore the person doing the staring. Acknowledging the person and smiling or staring back would only give them the impression that you are, indeed, interested. So, the theory of returning the stare can actually prove to make it worse.

    My fix to this is usually to finish shopping as soon as possible and leave.

    3. The "aggressive" stare. For women, this can actually be similar to the "I'm checking you out" stare because, on occasion, attraction or physical interest can precipitate aggression.

    One certainly doesn't want to "lead on" the starer by making them feel they are interested, but neither does one want to make the starer think he (or she) is afraid of said starer.

    This is where you get caught between a rock and a hard place. Acknowledging the stare and returning it can, of course, stop the eye-balling, but it could also be seen as a sign of interest and encouragement leading the starer to pursue.

    What then?

    P.S.
    I'm thinking more from a woman's point of view here (obviously) but it's something to consider. How a woman responds to someone "eye-balling" her can and often SHOULD BE different than how a man responds, especially given the type of "eye-balling" going on. It would be interesting to see what others think of the difference as well.

    If you have to look at the person, look at them or return the gaze as if you were looking at a target, not a person.

    You aren't looking at a person...you are just looking something you will either ignore, avoid or step on like a cockroach with just as much feeling.

    It sounds kinda odd, but take the soul out of your eyes when you look at someone and you will be supprised how un-welcoming you appear.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mid-Cape Cod, Mass.
    Posts
    861
    It is very interesting that what might be a passing look from someone can trigger these responses. Got to be more careful in the future :)
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  7. #22
    Member Array Redxd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    29
    Very true.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Mid-Cape Cod, Mass.
    Posts
    861
    I think of all the threads I have ever read, this one is the most surprising to me personally, because I certainly know there are evil people out there, and many would harm me if they could, and many more could harm me were it not for Mr Ruger.
    But I am genuinely surprised to see so many people think that a look is enough in itself to trigger a defensive mental posture. This is something I did not know, did not know it was so common, I mean, this seeing a look as that potentially threatening. And to be so QUICK to see it, is my main point.


    And my job requires me not to be naive, so I am not, in case there are those who think that upon reading my post here :)
    But people "people watch" and you hear that expression, and when you walk into a bar or restaurant or mall or wherever, you naturally look at others and it is harmless in 95% of the cases. Better than to walk into a store and look down at the floor continuously. So we do not avert our eyes completely as some would have us believe here.
    We do, in fact, look at other people, no matter what we say here. And sometimes they remind us of someone we know, and we might say to our wives, hey, that looks like ol' Jim, doesn't it? and she will peer a little bit more and say yeah kinda, and ol' Jim is gettin ready to draw now???

    So, naivety is out of the question for me. I don't see the threat in someone looking, unless it is really off the wall and obviously challenging. But a lot on this forum see it where I think it doesn't exist. Are they quick to see it? Do they want to see it?

    BikerRN said something that has stuck with me and I cannot remember his exact words but it was to the effect that a lot of people would draw and shoot way before they had to, if they thought they could do it legally, trying to do something to bad guys, or something like that. BikerRN knows what he wrote but it was very insightful of him.
    So of all the threads I have ever read, this notion of seeing evil in a mere look, puzzles me more than anything else. Granted that a look of a certain kind will trigger that right away, but we are not talking about that kind of a look here, I don't think we are. I think we are talking about when someone looks at us and does not immediately look away like we want him to?

    I don't think it was ever stated so that we were talking about openly challenging looks. Just looks in general is what most folks were talking about here. I want to be real clear that openly challenging looks are a whole different ballgame. But most people were talking about even a slightly longer than usual stare or look.
    Last edited by JD; May 14th, 2008 at 10:12 AM.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  9. #24
    Member Array Dusty Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Escalon, CA
    Posts
    335
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    It sounds kinda odd, but take the soul out of your eyes when you look at someone and you will be supprised how un-welcoming you appear.

    Tell me the technique.

  10. #25
    Member
    Array Cakewalk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Miller View Post
    Tell me the technique.
    I think what MitchellCT meant was hypothetical. Everyone has a soul, an essence that can not be duplicated. It gets very spiritual and somewhat religious when you contemplate it, but if that part of you, the part that that makes you who you are, your soul, was gone, you would be nothing more than a being with uncontrollable instincts, much like a wild animal. It's what differentiates us as humans from other species - our sense of self awareness.

    Here's the thing - when someone reverts back to their instincts, and has no control of them, like in a murder or a rape or the like, less of their soul is present to the outside world, and that's why they're so dangerous.

    I know that's a very deep and illogical response, but it's the best I can do to explain what I think he meant. MitchellCT, please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Keep emotionally active. Cater to your favorite neurosis.

  11. #26
    Member Array TonyB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Schodack NY
    Posts
    284
    I do the nice guy thing(mostly because I AM a nice guy)I acknowledge w/ a head bob and a "hey" and maybe a smile.
    Funny thing....I was on a roll for a while where wherever we went(my wife and I)these characters that looked like they JUST got out of prison,would look at me,I'd say "hey" and they would act like we were cell mates"hey bro"that type of thing.One guy actually said"there he is..."like a long lost buddy.....what do you think that means..Idon't look like a con(I don't think)or a cop..just a fat white guy.
    I told my Father this and he said it was because I looked like a "blues musician"???
    "Just because I'm paranoid,doesn't mean they're NOT after me...."

  12. #27
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    229
    I do personally respond to every look, whether it is aggressive or not(I'm not talking about a passing glance). But I don't think that just because somebody looks at me that they intend to do me harm. I mentioned that 99 percent of the people do not intend to do me harm.

    In my opinion where you live dose make a difference. When I was in New York, you could stand right in front of people and look them in the eye and they wouldn't even notice you. However the door men sure noticed a 6'2" long haired, bearded guy(I work undercover). But again, my eye contact and smile came in handy. In fact I have to use more charm and eye contact now that I look like a dirt bag to overcome peoples negative thoughts about me. So by making eye contact I am bettering every situation I am in and not making it worse.

    I don't think that it is the same for women as it is for men. You are not sending the same message. You could very easily be sending the message that you are flirting. Just like when I look a women in the eye and start taking.

    But I do believe that men instantly size each other up and figure out where they are on the pecking order. I don't see anything wrong with letting people know that you are "switched on." Isn't this just away of being in condition yellow?

  13. #28
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJake View Post
    I don't think that it is the same for women as it is for men. You are not sending the same message. You could very easily be sending the message that you are flirting. Just like when I look a women in the eye and start taking.
    Then my question would be, "What is the SOP for women?"

    I've often wondered this because I've often found myself uncomfortably stared at.

    It's all well and good for a man to be able to size up another man and give a good nod or acknowledging smile in another person's direction to let them know, "Hey, I see you. I see you seeing me. Ball's in your court."

    But for a woman, it's already been established that those rules don't apply. A glance and friendly smile might as well be saying, "Come over here and ask me for my phone number, or at least what I'm doing this Friday night."

    So, does a woman "sheepishly" keep her gaze averted while slyly trying to keep her "eye" on the starer? Does she acknowledge the gaze and potentially open the floor gates and attempt to deflect the tidal wave to a "safe" direction?

    But, I agree, that then looks like the woman is a wimp or scared (an opinion often placed on women already without the help of them looking away when being "eye-balled")

    I'm also apprehensive about taking the approach that MitchelleCT suggested because that could, indeed, escalate the situation in the other direction. Suddenly the woman is approached and instead of asking her dinner plans she gets hit up with, "Hey, do you have a problem with me?"

    And there is really no good answer to that question. Saying, "Yes," plus any explanation can further escalate the situation. Saying, "No," can invite the starer to start another conversation.

    I'm not sure that's the wisest plan of action.

    I think it could be best if women acknowledge the gaze with absolutely no emotion whatsoever. A direct look, straight into the eyes, a blank stare for a second and look away followed by no repeat glances (because everyone knows that multiple glances means interest no matter what emotion is on your face. Heck, you learn that in grade school).

    Non-verbal communication can be a very tricky thing for a woman, because a lot can be said unintentionally. Even if a gal just wants to look nice for a night out with the girls an overzealous man (or boy) can think she dressed up because she wants to be picked up. Suddenly she's getting cat calls that are as flattering as they are frustrating.

    Even a girl pursuing an interest that is not "usual" for a girl can get her in awkward situations. Being the only girl at a gun show, or at the local drag races, at the shooting range, in an auto body shop, at Gold's Gym... the requests for phone numbers gets tedious.

    A girl has to be careful how she responds. Guys can be funny about rejection.

  14. #29
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    229
    I am assuming that the "what are you staring at" remark is a situation between two guys? First of all, although I use this technique a lot, I have never gotten this response. I don't know why or if another guy would have the same results. But I do know that, for me, I would rather get this type of response then let some jerk intimidate me. I am very sarcastic, I would say some thing like, "The door." Or "Your jacket, where did you buy it at?" Again, smiling and making eye contact. Or you might say, "Nothing, I was just thinking to myself." It doesn't matter what you say, because your non verbal communication is still saying, I noticed you, I'm a nice guy, I'm not scared of you.

    I am not a woman. Yet. But here is a suggestion. What I would do is look around to let them know that you are paying attention, and make super brief eye contact as your vision passes him. Then he knows that, you noticed him and that you were not interested enough to stop and look. If he is trying to flirt then you communicated, not interested. If he is thinking about raping you, you communicated, I'm paying attention and I am not your type of customer. If he still insists on looking at you, then he is a ### and needs to be dealt with. One option is to let your husband have a "non verbal conversation" with him.

    Here is another option:
    I do a lot of interviews and interrogations. When a suspect tells me something that I don't like, or lies to me, I don't always call him a lier. A lot of times I just look at him differently. My eye's narrow(very slightly), I frown, and even make a slight no head movement from side to side. Keep in mind there all of these actions are very slight and brief, but the suspect picks up on it very quickly. He instantly know that, I don't believe you, and I don't like what you just said, did, or are doing. It is not even the conscious mind that is picking up on this. It is his subconscious. Every other time he has seen somebody make that face it signaled that he was doing something wrong, so when you do it, he will get the message, without you having to be to animated. If he thought you were flirting before, he knows now that you are not. Just an idea? The next time a guy hits on me I will try it out.

  15. #30
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    +1 JudoJake on your original and subsequent posts... I get the picture.

    Also nothing is set in stone...

    I'm definitely not giving off the vibe that I'm stepping in anyones face... only that I'm paying attention to what's going on around me and hey... I noticed him too.

    No fires to put out, no turf wars, just paying attention to, and taking in the sights.

    I'm also signaling at the same time, that if a situation does pop up that should demand my undivided attention, I'm not gonna be oblivious to it either.

    If someone does get bent out of shape simply because I acknowledge, in a friendly way, that I noticed he was "eyeballing me", then I know I need to be a notch up on my awareness. The ball is still in his court, but now he knows he isn't gonna be dealing with me as a

    (btw... if someone does get bent out of shape just because I noticed them looking at them; then by definition, I was correct in scrutinizing them in the first place!)

    Someone mentioned in an earlier post that "Situation Management goes along with Situational Awareness" or words to that effect. Very true on that!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

are you balling me

Click on a term to search for related topics.