Are you eye balling me?

This is a discussion on Are you eye balling me? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey DCB. I like your mindset about defending yourself from these guys. But I think you are way off base when is comes to their ...

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Thread: Are you eye balling me?

  1. #46
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Hey DCB. I like your mindset about defending yourself from these guys. But I think you are way off base when is comes to their mindset.

    I have experience dealing with, and even getting along with criminals. You name it and I have made them like and respect me. That's an art, just like any other art. I don't do it by acting like a sheep. They know that I am being nice, because I want to and not because I am scared and don't want them to hurt me.

    People are the same, whether they are criminals or not. They all have fears, abilities, lack of abilities, tempers, problems and on the list goes. Granted, they handle their tempers and other problems differently than you might.

    They also understand the pecking order really well(better than most), and most of them know when they are out classed, and have no desire to be beaten, sprayed or shot. Unless you disrespect them, then they might take a beating to save face. However I don't disrespect them, I look them in the eye, then show them respect. I treat everyone with respect, and I will change the way I treat them based on their actions. But if you start out treating them with respect, they will almost always give it to you back, whether they are murders, gang bangers, or whatever. Not always, but almost always.

    If they wanted a gun fight, they would go to the police station. They don't, that's why they do drive by shootings at unarmed or unsuspecting people. What the wolves don't respect is cowards, and easy marks(sheep). Now this is all under the context of somebody just staring at you for no reason.

    It should be another discussion on how to deal with people who are making eye contact with you and are obviously wanting to be a problem. Whether you took their parking space, or they are yelling at the store manager, or they are just in the store drunk and looking for a fight. In these situations, if you are the target, or are just watching what is going on, it is quit likely that they will look you in the eye to see which way you are going to jump. Remember they will usually have more experience than you on sizing up who is going to give them a problem and who is going to let them do what they want. What changes? Now you are in condition Orange.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Good post . Just because someone stares at you dose not mean he or she is out to do you harm. It makes no sense for you to turn paranoid. A smile goes a long way.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcb188 View Post
    I guess it's different in different places where we go etc all depends who is there and it varies a lot. Always pays to know who is around, though, that is for sure.
    Your right about that, there are some places in backwoods Mississippi that you would like

    There are different mindsets all across this Country( They want to elect a president that thinks we have 57 states)

    Some off these thugs(around here anyway) are out to prove something to there boys! They don't care about you!
    If a few,dare one to get in your face, they will !
    The first part of the fight starts when they stare you down, sizing you up, see how your acting.
    If the friends push it, they will do anything!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I ain't gonna stare at my feet and be some sort of sheep either.
    Yeah, that would be exactly the WRONG thing to do.

    That's the behavior of PREY, and will only entice a PREDATOR.

    The one thing no one should ever, EVER do when approached by a predator is to look DOWN AND AWAY. It's a signal of submission.

    See for yourself:

    YouTube - Carlie Brucia Abduction

    This girl was abducted, raped, and murdered. Watch her body language, especially when the POS was approaching her. Looking down and away, still walking, no fight, no flight. Submission.

    ...and it ended up costing her virtue and her life.

    Now, I doubt that many of us are as vulnerable as that young girl, or look as vulnerable as that young girl. But, the principle still applies.

    The message you need to send is not, "I'm afraid of you. Please just leave me alone." It's not, "Go ahead and TRY it, tough guy!"

    The appropriate message is, "Yeah, I see you. I'm not afraid of you. I'm WILLING to do whatever it takes to WIN, up to and including killing you ten times over. But that'd completely ruin both of our days, so what say we just nod and smile politely and go on with our days?"

    I get mad-dogged at least once a week. I turn my face directly towards them, make eye contact, hold it long enough to nod and say, "Hi there", and then turn my face and eyes right past them and continue on my merry way.

    To me, that constitutes deterrence. It fits into the spectrum at the point where they're still trying to decide if you're a victim. Now, if they start moving TOWARD you, or increase their POSTURING, that to me signals that you've "passed selection" and have become, in their mind, a viable candidate for predation. Your response at this time must be either flight (which is most likely futile and counterproductive at this late hour), or what John Farnam calls "de-selection".

    I have seen those signals and responded effectively to them on exactly two occasions. In both cases, I locked eyes with the predator and GLARED at him as hard and as suddenly as I could. In the first instance, I was armed, and made a very obvious preparation to draw from beneath a jacket (strong hand bladed against the chest). He altered his behavior and route immediately.

    In the second, I was not armed. I sped up and walked purposefully TOWARD him. He, too, altered his behavior and route immediately.

    No words were spoken, or necessary, in either case. I understood what they were communicating, and vice versa.

    Deterrence requires assertiveness. De-selection requires AGGRESSIVENESS.

    Predators never expect the prey to go on the offensive. It mucks up their OODA loop.

  6. #50
    Member Array tngunner's Avatar
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    Over time I realized that it is a pecking order and I wanted to be "the head pecker."



    Good post! I agree 100%

    I too, am a pecker head!

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    JudoJake: I have been dealing with them Mon thru Fri since 1979 :)
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Good post Sarg, more is said with body language then words.
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  9. #53
    Member Array carleb's Avatar
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    I have to admit that a lot of this talk really surprises me. I admit I am somewhat of a people watcher, but don't feel that my manner is threatening. I often attempt to make eye contact with other men as a form of acknowledgement. If he makes eye contact back, then a nod is respectful and expecting respect, but not threatening.

    I'm not in someone's pecking order. Pecking order is for herd animals and I'm not part of a herd, I'm an individual and I choose my own direction.

    I've spent most of my life working with herd animals and that can teach you something. Herd animals run in a direction because the one next to them runs that way, even if it's over a cliff.

    A person has to stay alert and aware of what's going on around them, then be prepared to act accordingly.

    I suppose it may be different in different areas, but I refuse to go through life looking at the ground all the time, and I sure don't tolerate being pecked on! Never thought of it as being "head pecker", or rebellious, or challenging to others -- Just living my life.

    Fortunately, I've been able to do that without much conflict.

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleb View Post
    I'm not in someone's pecking order. Pecking order is for herd animals and I'm not part of a herd, I'm an individual and I choose my own direction.
    ...but you walk amongst the herd, and the predator watching from the tall grass can't quite tell the difference just yet.

  11. #55
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    DCB. Didn't know your experience, I just knew mine, so I brought it up as a point of reference. But I still believe what I said in the last post. Again, that has been my experience. I obviously don't know much about yours.

  12. #56
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    I know. Just to let you know I have been around one or two savages, uh, I mean criminal types :) Good posts, JudoJake, all the time. I enjoy reading your stuff and you have good points and insights.....one thing we do have in common? Cannot stand savages, I mean, bad guys.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  13. #57
    Member Array CURMUDGEON5's Avatar
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    The predators know we cannot stand them, that's one of the reasons they mostly operate in 3's or 4's in an attempt to exploit that emotion to their advantage and intimidate their prey. What they don't always know ahead of time is that some of us are prepared to recognize those tactics without a word being spoken, and to use firearms, if necessary, to win the encounter, Bernie Goetz style. Then we'll need to gather up all our assets to hire a lawyer to defend us in "criminal" and civil court. But look on the bright side, we'll be alive to enjoy the comedy, seeing them whine.

  14. #58
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    'pends on what she looks like....
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

  15. #59
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Predators......the best part of this is that they would have no idea, no inkling, that one of their intended victims would ever be armed. This would probably be the very last thing on their minds. That gives us a tremendous advantage over them. They just would not be expecting to see a Ruger SP101 .357 snub nose being pulled out of a front jeans pocket. This element of surprise on our side cannot be overemphasized. For instance, they would never ever pat us down prior to herding us into the back of a convenience store or bank. Just would not occur to them til they heard this loud "pop".
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  16. #60
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Controlling a situation is a must right? I mean, that is why most of us carry a gun is so that we can dictate the end result and be in control of what happens, instead of being at the mercy of some thug with a knife, gun or whatever.

    We also don't want to use excessive force or use the gun when it isn't necessary. This is why I think that it is important to politely be in control of things early on. If we don't take control early, then we are giving them permission to go to the next step and it will be more dangerous to take control later on.

    For instance, just taking one possible situation. You have a thug, who wants to rob a gas station. If his mother would have taken his Grand Theft Auto video game away from him when he was a kid, and told him that's not right, she would have taught him that he didn't have permission to behave like that. But she didn't.

    If the court system would have convicted this tug and sent him to prison the first time he committed a robbery, then he might have gotten the message that it was not OK to do that. But he got probation with no felony conviction, so he can still possess a gun if the police find one in his car.

    If the gas station was well lit, with video surveillance and no cash on hand, and a sign that said "no sun glasses, hoodies, or hats. He might have found a different store. But none of these thing happened. Nobody in this guys live has denied him permission to commit the crime that he is about to commit.

    Now he is in the store, looking around and trying to figure out if this is it. Because you are also looking around, he notices you and you notice him. If you quickly look down, he thinks, that guy isn't going to give me any trouble and you are giving him permission to go ahead and rob the place. But what if you look him in the eye, smile, and say, "How are you." Now picture your dirt bag about ready to commit a robbery. How many people dose he see that looks like you, that give him the time of day. This will most likely freak him out. He wasn't expecting that. And it shows on his face. You can tell that he is ampt up. And you tell yourself, there is something up with this guy. So you start talking to him more. What is he going to do, say excuse me, then draw a gun. I doubt it. I think you have said, I noticed you, you don't scare me. I think this is a good way to take control early. Will eye contact alone stop him? Who knows, but it has a lot better chance than looking down at the ground. If nothing else he will be thinking, this guy is going to remember my face.

    If you don't take control early, he may pull out a gun and start shooting if he doesn't get what he wants. Now you decide to take control, but to take control now, you risk a lot more.

    This may be a bit of an extreme case, but I am trying to demonstrate a point. The point is, if you can take control of situations early on, buy verbal and no verbal communication, you are going to reduce the likely hood that you will have to do something drastic later on, like draw your weapon, to get control later.

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