Home defense hypothetical

This is a discussion on Home defense hypothetical within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yeah, if you can talk to them beforehand. But you and i never see folks prior to the 911 call being made, hardly ever. But ...

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Thread: Home defense hypothetical

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Yeah, if you can talk to them beforehand. But you and i never see folks prior to the 911 call being made, hardly ever. But if they stuck to the words I suggested they would be fine. If I had the chance to advise them ahead of time, I would, but you and I see these folks way after the fact.
    Thanks for backing up the keyboard attorney. :) Ya gotta love it. Our DIs at Parris Island always told us, listen, you ----, there is always that TEN PERCENT, PEOPLE.
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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Depending on your answers there will be variations but these are basically the questions I would ask you when you called 9-1-1
    What is your emergency? You tell me someone broke in and you shot them.
    What is the address there? You confirm the address for me
    Are you injured?
    What is your name?
    Where is the injured person?
    Where are you?
    What is your description?
    How many other people should be in the house right now?
    Are all of your family members accounted for?
    Can you see from where you are standing if he has any kind of weapon in his hands?
    Can you tell if he is still breathing?
    Do you have any idea how he got in?
    How many doors are there to your house?
    Is your yard fenced?
    Are there any hazards in the yard officers need to be aware of?
    What vehicles should officers expect to see when they pull up?

    I am not going to ask you to approach the BG, or to put your weapon down until officers are at the scene. If you have told me the BG is still breathing I am going to ask if you can have a family member open the door for the officers. If you are home alone that complicates things a bit, but we would work it out.

    If you give me straight answers that is pretty much how it would go. If you start sounding evasive that is when I am going to start asking things like:

    Do you have any idea who he is?
    Have you ever seen him before?
    and other questions that could put you in a bind later if you lie to me. The reality is for the purpose of our conversation it really does not matter who he is or how well you know him. The response is going to be the same. When you start playing games that is my cue to go fishing and maybe put you in a box. You have no idea who he is, and have never seen him before, and then detectives find people that put the two of you together..... bad thing.
    Don't give me reasons to ask the questions you don't want to answer.
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  4. #78
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Very well said. Just give 911 info, not unasked for input.
    This is what i was talking about before, to be evasive is unnecessary, but a lot of folks just want to do the minimum required by law and not take another step. So imagine telling a 911 operator you want to speak to a lawyer! You can do it but boy does it sound fishy.
    You can give the facts without overdoing it but you need not consider 911 or officers your adversaries if you are involved in just exactly what is described in post number 1.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    mcp, I have a question...how do we know who we are talking to? There was a thread not too long ago where the 911 operator fell asleep. Another one where the 911 operator just didn't care.Thanks for the clarification, but I still don't know who I am going to be talking to, what their political leaning is, or anything else. There have also been threads recently where the 911 operator was arguing with the caller about why he even has a gun in the first place.

    I'm sure the operators like that are in the 1 percentile, but heck, I've already beaten the odds if I have been in a shooting in the first place.

    I like the first set of questions, and with those type of cut to the chase questions, I would definitely answer and follow the direction of the operator. All of the first questions are very valid, and would help to contribute to officer safety, my own, and would help the responding police know if there were any other intruders around.

    If it got to the more subjective answers as in your second set, I would probably put the phone down.

    I guess I'll change my answer to I'll play it by ear. If it starts to become an interrogation or argument, I'm just going to put the phone down.
    Last edited by Kerbouchard; May 22nd, 2008 at 05:43 PM. Reason: restructure
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  6. #80
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I say at that point you have already neutralized the situation and are still trained on the BG (just in case his name is Jason Vorhees), if you get an operator that is asleep at the wheel hang up and call back, escalate the call or something like that.

    I also add my agreement to only give what is asked, and to that point what is pertinent, BG came in uninvited and when my friends Mr Smith and Mr Wesson asked him to leave he didn't and just seemed to fall to the floor (I obviously wouldn't actually say that part, but it would be fun just once).

    At least in TX if someone is in my house in uninvited I have the right to protect my family, and I will, and as long as I didn't shoot him in the back I am golden and have nothing to worry about.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  7. #81
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Given the original post, how do I know I've killed the BG?

    All I know is, someone invaded my home and I was forced to defend myself by firing my gun in the direction of the invader. My call to 911 would be something like:

    "This is Biker at 6969 Middlesexy Lane. I was home sleeping and an armed intruder broke in to my home. I fired a weapon in defense of my life. The intruder is still on the property and to my knowledge is still armed. My spouse is located in the bedroom behind a locked door and armed with a shotgun and a mean dog.

    We are in need of Police and Ambulance. I am wearing a grey T-Shirt and Boxer Shorts. I will secure my weapon when responding units arrive. By the way, I am an off duty Federal Law Enforcement Officer."

    That's it. I wouldn't use the words kill, shoot or that you "hit him". You may have missed. I also would not attempt to secure the intruder's weapon. I would take a position of cover and proceed to cover the intruder while conversing with 911.

    After I have said what I need to say, I would SHUT UP! After the responding units arrive and I have been identified, and wife has secured her shotgun, I would demand medical attention at the Hospital of my choosing. I would then request to be taken to that Hospital by ambulance, remaining silent all the way. My next step would be to call my Union Rep, lawyer for most of you. Then I would notify my agency of what happened.

    Until my Union Rep gets there, I'm not telling anybody anything, except the ER Physician. I would tell him or her that I recently suffered a truamatic psychological expirience and that I'm undergoing an "adrenaline dump". I may say something like, "I was forced to defend my life tonight using deadly force." After that I would SHUT UP!

    If you are wondering why I would stress the "shut up" part, it's because of these few little words: "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law."
    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; May 22nd, 2008 at 09:52 PM.

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Nice post, Biker...

    It's interesting that almost every LEO, Attorney, and Self Defense Expert that has ever made a comment about this says they would keep their mouths shut and not make any statements. I wonder what they know that civilians don't?
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  9. #83
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Nice post, Biker...

    It's interesting that almost every LEO, Attorney, and Self Defense Expert that has ever made a comment about this says they would keep their mouths shut and not make any statements. I wonder what they know that civilians don't?

    Go back and read the BOLD face portions again. I fixed it. :) I think that tells why I want to keep my mouth shut.

    Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Nice post, Biker...

    It's interesting that almost every LEO, Attorney, and Self Defense Expert that has ever made a comment about this says they would keep their mouths shut and not make any statements. I wonder what they know that civilians don't?
    Give me $200, a case of Black Hills 55grain .223 Red Box, a bottle of good whiskey and a 28 year old Brunette chick who is clean of body but dirty of mind, and I'll let you in on the secrets...

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Go back and read the BOLD face portions again. I fixed it. :) I think that tells why I want to keep my mouth shut.

    Take care and stay safe.

    Biker
    Yep, turns out it's not...
    "Anything you say can and will be used for you in the court of law."

    Which brings me back to my original point...Say as little as possible and keep your mouth shut. A 911 call is not the time to plead your case.

    BTW, I'm not sure what you fixed? The original post looked pretty good to me.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  12. #86
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I just put the first part of the Miranda Warnings in BOLD.

    Biker

  13. #87
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camguy View Post
    Bad guy in your home, middle of the night, visibly armed, you shoot and kill him. All solid self-defense. You immediately grab the phone and call for an ambulance and police.
    Here's my question: when asked what the nature of the emergency is by the 911 operator, do you say "I just shot an intruder in my home," or something more vague such as "there's been a shooting?"
    I guess I'm wondering if it's better to CYA until the police arrive to assess the situation. Thoughts?
    You definitely do NOT want to be "vague" in this sort of situation. Responding officers need to have as much information as possible PRIOR to responding to a call involving a shooting.

    I believe a few of the other posters have already correctly stated what you should say, but to reiterate:

    1. Give the 911 operator your name and address.
    2. Tell them you've shot an armed intruder inside your home, and you think he might be dead. Make specific mention of the fact that he was armed with a gun, and that he no longer appears to be a threat.
    3. Request police and an ambulance.
    4. Give them a description of yourself and what you're wearing.
    5. Comply with all instructions given to you by responding LEO's.
    6. Tell investigating officers the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and stick by your account come Hell or high water.

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    I think I suggested that sort of thing back in post 21 but after that there was an accent on keeping one's mouth shut, as if 911 and responding units were our adversaries, and what we said could be used in court against us.
    I don't think we would end up in court if we gave the info I and others suggested. To see everyone as an adversary goes way way too far but this is how we live nowadays, trusting no one, thinking that if we talk to anyone, they could some day some year use it in court. This is no way to live.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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  15. #89
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Nothing you say can be used FOR you in a court of law. It's not admissable as evidence. Anything you say that makes you look better can not be used as evidence for your side.

    Seems pretty simple to me.

    Nothing I say can be used for me, and everything I say can be used against me. Sounds like a scenario where Less is More.

    You guys say whatever you want. Hopefully none of us have to make that call in the first place.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  16. #90
    New Member Array camguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    .
    Don't give me reasons to ask the questions you don't want to answer.
    Sort of like Jules said in Pulp Fiction: "If my answers frighten you, Vincent, stop asking scary questions."
    Seriously, though, it's great to get such good advice from a pro.

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